Greetings,

How many horsecars are in existance? How many are preserved?

Thanks,
Gerald Kopiasz, President
Heartland Railroad Historical Society

Heartland Railroad Historical Society
hrrhs@aol.com

I have one a few blocks from my house, in Milwuakie, Oregon. It's in front of the city museum, under cover, and seems well kept. They had Christmas lights on it during the holidays. I think it's an old Portland car.

There was a nice one at Railfair, pulled by a horse no less!

The Bay area has some converted into houses, the area is referred to as "car town". Some of these houses were made up by as many as four cars together.

The first item collected by the Museum of Transportation in St. Louis was a mule-drawn streetcar built in the early 1870s for the Bellfontaine Ry of St. Louis by the Andrew Wight Car Company of St. Louis. The firm was later Brownell & Wight. It is fully restored and on exhibit sitting on two lengths of flat-bottomed tram rail in our automotive exhibit building. It has a backdrop made of blown up photos of horse and mule cars on the streets of the city taken in the early 1880s. We also have a second car from circa 1885 built by the St. Louis Car Company and shown at the St. Louis World's Fair by them. It was donated in 1948 after years of storage and has not been restored.

Museum of Transportation
rdgoldfede@aol.com

There is a 1882 Stephenson in Dallas awaiting restoration that will be used on the McKinney Avenue Transit Avenue.

San Jose has a beautifully restored car that has excellent hand-painted pinstriping & filigree painted by Fred Bennet.

tnold@bigfoot.com

> Greetings,

> How many horsecars are in existance? How
> many are preserved?

> Thanks,
> Gerald Kopiasz, President
> Heartland Railroad Historical Society

Robert Reich of Seashore Trolley Museum is in the process of compiling a comprehensive list. He can be reached at RJReich@aol.com. He currently has about 65 listings worldwide.

Railway Preservation Resources
jsmatlak@earthlink.net

This is by no means a complete list, but here are the cars I am aware of:

Known Preserved horse cars

California

Woodland Railroad, Woodland CA, 3Â’ gauge, single truck, in Hendrick Museum

San Francisco Horse car, San Jose Historic Railroad, Kelly Park, San Jose, CA,

Oakland Railroad 8, Hammond 1887, Society for the Preservation of Carter Railroad Resources, Ardenwood Historic Farm, Fremont, CA

San Francisco Sutter Street Railway, Shinn House, Fremont CA

San Francisco, Sutter Street Railway, Cable Car Museum, San Francisco CA

San Luis Obisbo Street Railway Holt, 1887, body at Dallidet Abobe, 1185 Pacific St, (photo, T&M 8-75, p14)

Sacramento City, County Archives, former Sacramento Car, via Louis Stein

Orange Empire Museum, Perris CA, three cars,

1) San Francisco Sutter Street Railway

2) Pasadena car

Travel Town, Los Angeles CA

Los Angeles open car

Other US

North Chicago Street Railroad 8, Stephenson, 1859 Illinois Railroad Museum, Union Ill

No. 10, New Bedford Mass, Brill, 1885, 16Â’ closed car
No. 12, Fitchburg Mass, Brill, 1886, 7 bench open car
both at Seashore Trolley Museum, Kenabunkport ME

Baltimore City Passenger Railway 128, Stephenson, circa 1880, Baltimore Streetcar Museum

Dallas Texas, Stephenson 6 window, closed car, 1882, property of Ed Landrum, associated with the McKinney Ave Street Railroad

Canada

Quebec Street Railroad, Stephenson, circa 1880, Canadian Railroad Museum, DELSON/ SAINT-CONSTANT, Quebec, Canada

Other

Stephenson export car, National Railroad Museum, York England,

Randy Hees,
SPCRR, Newark CA



hees@ix.netcom.com

There is a horsecar in the New York State Museum in Albany NY. It was deassessioned by the Henry Ford Museum a few years ago.

Trolley Museum of NY web store
n2xjk@ulster.net

> How many horsecars are in existance? How many are preserved?

You were not asking about horse express cars, were you? You certainly got response about the horse drawn predecessor of streetcars.

BN


bnorden@gateway.net

> This is by no means a complete list, but
> here are the cars I am aware of:

> Known Preserved horse cars

> California

> Woodland Railroad, Woodland CA, 3Â’ gauge,
> single truck, in Hendrick Museum

> San Francisco Horse car, San Jose Historic
> Railroad, Kelly Park, San Jose, CA,

> Oakland Railroad 8, Hammond 1887, Society
> for the Preservation of Carter Railroad
> Resources, Ardenwood Historic Farm, Fremont,
> CA

> San Francisco Sutter Street Railway, Shinn
> House, Fremont CA

> San Francisco, Sutter Street Railway, Cable
> Car Museum, San Francisco CA

> San Luis Obisbo Street Railway Holt, 1887,
> body at Dallidet Abobe, 1185 Pacific St,
> (photo, T&M 8-75, p14)

> Sacramento City, County Archives, former
> Sacramento Car, via Louis Stein

> Orange Empire Museum, Perris CA, three cars,

> 1) San Francisco Sutter Street Railway

> 2) Pasadena car

> Travel Town, Los Angeles CA

> Los Angeles open car

> Other US

> North Chicago Street Railroad 8, Stephenson,
> 1859 Illinois Railroad Museum, Union Ill

> No. 10, New Bedford Mass, Brill, 1885, 16Â’
> closed car
> No. 12, Fitchburg Mass, Brill, 1886, 7 bench
> open car
> both at Seashore Trolley Museum,
> Kenabunkport ME

> Baltimore City Passenger Railway 128,
> Stephenson, circa 1880, Baltimore Streetcar
> Museum

> Dallas Texas, Stephenson 6 window, closed
> car, 1882, property of Ed Landrum,
> associated with the McKinney Ave Street
> Railroad

> Canada

> Quebec Street Railroad, Stephenson, circa
> 1880, Canadian Railroad Museum, DELSON/
> SAINT-CONSTANT, Quebec, Canada

> Other

> Stephenson export car, National Railroad
> Museum, York England,

> Randy Hees,
> SPCRR, Newark CA
Let's not forget the still active 36 inch Gauge line in Douglas on the Isle of Man.

ironbartom@aol.com

Greetings,

I'd like to apologize for not being specific enough. Though I got pretty good feedback from you folks, it is for the wrong type of car. Brian Norden is correct, I'm asking about horse express cars as in the head end type car. I should have been more specific.

Thanks,
Gerald Kopiasz, President
Heartland Railroad Historical Society

>You were not asking about horse express
> cars, were you? You certainly got response
> about the horse drawn predecessor of
> streetcars.

> BN


Heartland Railroad Historical Society
hrrhs@aol.com

I believe there is a PRR horse car on the Reading & Northern.

Bob

> Greetings,

> I'd like to apologize for not being specific
> enough. Though I got pretty good feedback
> from you folks, it is for the wrong type of
> car. Brian Norden is correct, I'm asking
> about horse express cars as in the head end
> type car. I should have been more specific.

> Thanks,
> Gerald Kopiasz, President
> Heartland Railroad Historical Society

I am interested in the type of horse car that carried people through the streets before the advent of the trolley car and have been making a list of those extant. Thanks to those who provided information. Copies of the list are available although in preliminary form. Use e-mail address to request.

RJReich@aol.com

Two Santa Fe horse express cars built in 1931 (ordered in 1930) are in Southern California. These may be the newest Santa Fe heavyweight cars existing. These cars and some lounges were built in 1931.

1992 is at the exhibit of the Southern California Chapter, Railway & Locomotive Historical Society at the Los Angeles County Fairgrounds, Pomona, California.

1999 is at the Orange Empire Railway Museum at Perris, California.

Brian Norden

bnorden@gateway.net

The Kentucky Railway Museum in New Haven, KY owns an ex Louisville Railway Co. horse car. It is of 5' gauge. It has a near twin owned by the Louisville Transit authority, it is on display in their offices located in Union Station in Louisville.

wilkidm@wku.edu

> The Kentucky Railway Museum in New Haven, KY
> owns an ex Louisville Railway Co. horse car.
> It is of 5' gauge. It has a near twin owned
> by the Louisville Transit authority, it is
> on display in their offices located in Union
> Station in Louisville.

A PRR steel horse car, believed to be the "Saratoga Springs," is on exhibit at the Railroad Museum of Pennsylvania. It was donated by Bennett Levin in 1992. I believe the Pennsy named their horse cars after the names of prominent race horses.

Kurt Bell


Kurtrbell@hotmail.com