Hello All

For those interested in such things, MHWA 4810, a former DL&W "Keyser Valley" caboose should be in Scranton by the time you read this. The former DL&W 882 was interchanged at CP Rail's Taylor Yard yesterday. The circa 1952 car (built on an old tender frame) was stored on the Lowville and Beaver River for a while before recieving some work and shippment to Scranton.

The car is in GVT Rail's corporate scheme and is similar to the Lackawanna Caboose at Steamtown with a few differences.

Most of the time the car is going to be used as a display piece, but might see revenue service as well.

Dave Crosby

bing@epix.net

Just to add to Dave's note... The Keyser Valley shops where the DL&W built these hacks was located just west of West Scranton. Many of the shop buildings remain, in various industrial reuse. The industrial park that occupies the DL&W and former coal lands is served by the Reading & Northern, which operted the former DL&W Keyser Valley branch out of Taylor Yard.

Rob

> Hello All

> For those interested in such things, MHWA
> 4810, a former DL&W "Keyser
> Valley" caboose should be in Scranton
> by the time you read this. The former
> DL&W 882 was interchanged at CP Rail's
> Taylor Yard yesterday. The circa 1952 car
> (built on an old tender frame) was stored on
> the Lowville and Beaver River for a while
> before recieving some work and shippment to
> Scranton.

> The car is in GVT Rail's corporate scheme
> and is similar to the Lackawanna Caboose at
> Steamtown with a few differences.

> Most of the time the car is going to be used
> as a display piece, but might see revenue
> service as well.

> Dave Crosby

Another note... there are quite a few built-in-Scranton relics out there for Steamtown or one of the local societies to acquire. Of course, there are a handful of Dickson locos. There are also a dwindling number of DL&W Keyser Valley-built cars, along with a few Erie Dunmore-built cars (part of the shop complex stands as well!).

What often gets lost in the Steamtown pro's and con's is that the Scranton/Wilkes-Barre area is one of the most significant regions for rail and industrial history.

I mention that, because Steamtown garners such visceral responses. It ain't just about Steamtown. Scranton was the first great iron city in the US, and is truly the heart of the origins of the steel, coal and heavy railroading industries in the US.

Rob

Good points from Rob, I often forget that not everyone knows what a Keyser Valley car is...

As for industrial remnants, its quite amazing what is left, even in Downtown Scranton, things that people pass by and don't even notice.

Standing on the former "Chicago" track behind the Lackawanna Station Hotel in Scranton, you can see the former REA building, Locomotive Erecting Shop, The Steamtown Yard, an interurban freight station, the "Historic Iron Furnaces", one of two interlocking towers and in the very near future the "Electric City" sign (heralding the electric street car system" will be restored atop the former PP&L building.

A short drive will reveal the former yards and stations of no less then three other railroads, a former DL&W railroad hospital, railroad rooming house for the D&H, the Pennyslvania Coal Company Offices, Erie Railroad car shops, the longest interurban tunnel in America and so much more. Its an amazing district.

DBC

bing@epix.net

There must be something about Scranton and cabeese. The Erie built a number of cabooses at their Dunmore Shops, just outside Scranton.

Electric City Trolley Museum Association

the
> longest interurban tunnel in America and so
> much more. Its an amazing district.

> DBC

As far as I knew, the former Columbus, Newark & Zanseville (later Ohio Electric) tunnel in Blackhand Gorge near Toboso (East of Newark, and North of Zanesville, Ohio), shown below held that title. Its still there by the way, frequented many a time in the mid-1990's by this railfan....

TJG




tjgaffney@phmuseum.org

TJ

Thats what I get for listening to all the propaganda here... How long is that tunnel? The Scranton tunnel is 4755 feet...

DBC

bing@epix.net

And is that tunnel in Ohio currently in use?

Electric City Trolley Museum Association

> And is that tunnel in Ohio currently in use?

No, definitely no longer in use, other than as a trail. If you use that as your sole definition, you win hands down! I'm trying to find overall length of the tunnel to see how it competes. Whats interesting is that I sense neither of us (definitely not in my case anyway) knew of the other traction tunnel. This one goes through sandstone its entire length I believe. Another view of the Blackhand Gorge Tunnel below, as it looks today.

Just goes to show that we all need to be careful when we say anything is the "absolute"; never know what esle is out there!

Port Huron Museum

tjgaffney@phmuseum.org

> Just goes to show that we all need to be
> careful when we say anything is the
> "absolute"; never know what esle
> is out there!

How true indeed... I had no knowledge of its existance before today. I'd be interested to find out the lenght of it.

DBC


bing@epix.net

> How true indeed... I had no knowledge of its
> existance before today. I'd be interested to
> find out the lenght of it.

> DBC

Does the State Street Subway count as a "tunnel"?

Another view of the
> Blackhand Gorge Tunnel below, as it looks
> today.

Judging from my 30+ years of estimating the lengths of covered bridges from the length of darkness and the size of the far opening, I'm wagering that the tunnel you pictured is perhaps 700-800 feet long. Whatever its length, it's FAR shorter than the 4700' or so of the Scranton tunnel.

LNER4472-NOSPAM-@bcpl.net

>Here's more to add to the controversy. When I was in Dallas, TX, the light rail DART electric car left the Mockingbird station heading for the downtown in a tunnel. Since we travelled very quickly, I couldn't measure the length, but I'd say more than a mile. Taking a quick look at the DART site doesn't reveal much in this regard.
For the record, Dave, The St Mary's tunnel in Scranton, also known by other names, is 4747 feet long. But what's 8 feet between friends?

http://www.dart.org

There are 3 other interurban tunnels that are much longer than the one in Ohio, although only one may be as long as the Scranton tunnel. These are:

Pittsburgh Railways South Hills tunnel - the only such tunnel in continuous traction use since it was built (although it is now shared with buses). I do not recall its length but I think it is about the same as the Scranton tunnel.

United Rys, later Oregon Electric Cornelius Pass tunnel, NW of Portland, Oregon - I believe this tunnel is out of service, although the track is in place and it is owned by an active railroad (Portland & Western)

Sacremento Northern Oakland Hills tunnel - Abandoned and sealed.

As far as rapid transit tunnels go, I am sure that the BART transbay tunnel takes the length record in the US by a substantial amount.


artschwartz@sprintmail.com

The Sacramento Northern tunnel through the Oakland hills was about 3200 feet long. It was mostly wood lined. BART does not really consider the Transbay Tube to be a tunnel, as it was not constructed as a tunnel would have been constructed. The tube is made up of 300-foot long tube sections that were built in a boat yard, floated to their proper location and then sunk into a trench that had been dug in the floor of the Bay. The sections were bolted together and then covered with crushed stone to keep them from floating. BART does refer to their Berkeley Hills tunnel as a tunnel as it was built using standard tunneling practices and performs the normal function of a tunnel, going through a hill. This tunnel is around 2.5 miles long. It goes through the same range of hills that the Sacramento Northern tunnel went through. I would not include subways in a survey of interurban tunnels as they were really built for a different reason and there are so many miles of them in service, many with multiple routes. >There are 3 other interurban tunnels that
> are much longer than the one in Ohio,
> although only one may be as long as the
> Scranton tunnel. These are:

> Pittsburgh Railways South Hills tunnel - the
> only such tunnel in continuous traction use
> since it was built (although it is now
> shared with buses). I do not recall its
> length but I think it is about the same as
> the Scranton tunnel.

> United Rys, later Oregon Electric Cornelius
> Pass tunnel, NW of Portland, Oregon - I
> believe this tunnel is out of service,
> although the track is in place and it is
> owned by an active railroad (Portland &
> Western)

> Sacremento Northern Oakland Hills tunnel -
> Abandoned and sealed.

> As far as rapid transit tunnels go, I am
> sure that the BART transbay tunnel takes the
> length record in the US by a substantial
> amount.