I found this on the north line (Sycan woods line) of the Oregon, California and Eastern, when I visited the area in 2002. The line was abandoned around 1990. I don't think the line got a lot of use in it's later years, especially the spur this car was located at the end of. I imagine it was left there many years ago and when they came back in the early 1990s to tear out the track, they just flipped the car upsidedown off of the track (doing some pretty good damage to the car) and took the rails.

I don't know much about railcars. It looks like just an old flatbed car, but the rotting wood (and the fact it's made almost entirely out of wood) has me thinking it's extremely old and might be the remains of something more than a flatbed, like maybe a caboose or something?

Check out the brake mechanism. Even it's made out of wood. Does this thing possibly date back into the 1800s or at least the very early 1900s?

Any info would be appreciated.

Here's another picture:
http://www.brian894x4.com/oldrrcar1.jpg



My Abandoned Railroad Page

brianmccamish@msn.com

> I found this on the north line (Sycan woods
> line) of the Oregon, California and Eastern,
> when I visited the area in 2002. The line
> was abandoned around 1990. I don't think the
> line got a lot of use in it's later years,
> especially the spur this car was located at
> the end of. I imagine it was left there many
> years ago and when they came back in the
> early 1990s to tear out the track, they just
> flipped the car upsidedown off of the track
> (doing some pretty good damage to the car)
> and took the rails.

> I don't know much about railcars. It looks
> like just an old flatbed car, but the
> rotting wood (and the fact it's made almost
> entirely out of wood) has me thinking it's
> extremely old and might be the remains of
> something more than a flatbed, like maybe a
> caboose or something?

> Check out the brake mechanism. Even it's
> made out of wood. Does this thing possibly
> date back into the 1800s or at least the
> very early 1900s?

> Any info would be appreciated.

> Here's another picture:
> http://www.brian894x4.com/oldrrcar1.jpg

The lightweight wheelsets and rudimentary "couplers" suggest it's just a M/W flat, something a motorcar would tow around. But the presence of brakes is a big unusual for equipment of that sort. Could date anywhere from 1910s to 1940s.


k3prr@verizon.net

I note that there are no coupler pockets so there could not have been knuckle coupler drawbars. Link and pin maybe? It looks like an Eames vaccume brake cylinder. That system dates from the 1880's and 90's before air brakes. Very rare today. On ther other hand it could be some kind of direct air system.

There appears to be a wheel missing. Maybe it broke it on the line long ago and was dumped on site. It looks like the ballast has piled up against the sill possibly indicating the line has been reballasted since the car was dumped.

Certainly a "bobber" design. Looks like the journal boxes are sprung in a casting mounted to the side sills. That and the vacuum brakes seem way too much for a MOW car. Link and pin and vacuume brakes would date the car around 1890's.

It looks semi-arid there. How long would wood last? A very interesting find.



The East Broad Top Homepage
ebtrr@spikesys.com

> I note that there are no coupler pockets so
> there could not have been knuckle coupler
> drawbars. Link and pin maybe? It looks like
> an Eames vaccume brake cylinder. That system
> dates from the 1880's and 90's before air
> brakes. Very rare today. On ther other hand
> it could be some kind of direct air system.

> There appears to be a wheel missing. Maybe
> it broke it on the line long ago and was
> dumped on site. It looks like the ballast
> has piled up against the sill possibly
> indicating the line has been reballasted
> since the car was dumped.

> Certainly a "bobber" design. Looks
> like the journal boxes are sprung in a
> casting mounted to the side sills. That and
> the vacuum brakes seem way too much for a
> MOW car. Link and pin and vacuume brakes
> would date the car around 1890's.

> It looks semi-arid there. How long would
> wood last? A very interesting find.

It's basicly high desert. Elevation is 5000 feet and up and it doesn't rain that much. It's on the east side of the Cascades. But as for how long wood would last, I'm not sure. In the Cascade mountains, I've seen wood structures and bridges rot away in 50 years or less. But in the desert, I've seen buildings last well over 100 years.

That's some interesting info. Would anybody have a picture of what it maybe used to look like?


My Abandoned Railroad Page

brianmccamish@msn.com

Here's some more pictures from different angles:

Probably would be easiest to copy and paste these into your browser.

http://www.brian894x4.com/tempRYPNcar1.jpg

http://www.brian894x4.com/tempRYPNcar2.jpg

http://www.brian894x4.com/tempRYPNcar3.jpg


My Abandoned Railroad Page
brianmccamish@msn.com

> I note that there are no coupler pockets so
> there could not have been knuckle coupler
> drawbars. Link and pin maybe? It looks like
> an Eames vaccume brake cylinder. That system
> dates from the 1880's and 90's before air
> brakes. Very rare today. On ther other hand
> it could be some kind of direct air system.

> There appears to be a wheel missing. Maybe
> it broke it on the line long ago and was
> dumped on site. It looks like the ballast
> has piled up against the sill possibly
> indicating the line has been reballasted
> since the car was dumped.

> Certainly a "bobber" design. Looks
> like the journal boxes are sprung in a
> casting mounted to the side sills. That and
> the vacuum brakes seem way too much for a
> MOW car. Link and pin and vacuume brakes
> would date the car around 1890's.

> It looks semi-arid there. How long would
> wood last? A very interesting find.

Whoa! Whoa! WHOA!!!!

This thing is nowhere near as old as people are making it out to be. I see the following details:

1. The one journal pedestal that shows appears to be a weldment. Welded fabrication hardly dates to before WWII.

2. The saddles the truss rods bear against are made from pieces of rolled channel. Typically these would have been castings on anything buildt in the early part of the last century or before.

3. The brake cylinder looks to be built from pressings, not castings like railroad equipment was traditionally made from. In fact, it looks like a present day truck brake cylinder.

Which leads me to my conclusion; it's a maotor car (speeder) trailer that was cobbled together in the railroad's own shop from bits and pieces of older motor cars (the wheels and cast brake shoes), stock steel shapes, and truck brakes. These little logging lines seemed to like really big speeders to move both maintence crews and loggers, sometimes even using trailers to haul a larger crew. If the load got heavey enough, some enterprising mechanic could have cobbled up power brakes, and it appears that this one used truck parts.

If the wood is Doug Fir, the frame will last a long time, and will likely still be there at the turn of the NEXT century. If you don't believe me, I'll dig out my pictures of equipment abandoned on the tundra in Alaska.

Dennis Storzek

dstorzek@elnet.com

I'm inclined to agree with you. Now that I'm home and looking at photos, the cylinder is not quite the right shape for Eames anyway. As seen in http://catskillarchive.com/rrextra/chapt22.Html Plus they would not have run it in service in the last hundred years with and Eames system on it and be able to operate with other cars. It must indeed be some kind of direct air system. Without the vacuume system that shoots the date I suggested.

I see the channel fabrication now. Another clue it was a cobble-together is the mix of hex and square head bolts. Apparently the general design is much older than the actual construction.

Still would take a sizable motor car to pull it loaded, such as a Fairmont A series. One with a compressed air supply to boot.



ebtrr@spikesys.com

> I'm inclined to agree with you. Now that I'm
> home and looking at photos, the cylinder is
> not quite the right shape for Eames anyway.
> As seen in
> http://catskillarchive.com/rrextra/chapt22.Html
> Plus they would not have run it in service
> in the last hundred years with and Eames
> system on it and be able to operate with
> other cars. It must indeed be some kind of
> direct air system. Without the vacuume
> system that shoots the date I suggested.

> I see the channel fabrication now. Another
> clue it was a cobble-together is the mix of
> hex and square head bolts. Apparently the
> general design is much older than the actual
> construction.

> Still would take a sizable motor car to pull
> it loaded, such as a Fairmont A series. One
> with a compressed air supply to boot.

I see those types of bolts in a lot of old wood bridges and such. When the last time they used those types of nuts/bolts in railroad construction and for cars like this?


My Abandoned Railroads Website
brianmccamish@msn.com

Generally, square head bolts and nuts date to pre-1930's era. You will also find that sometime around the 1930's the threading on screws changed and became more standardized, which makes it interesting to restore old equipment since you can't get replacement screws and bolts in many cases. I concur, it looks like a speeder cart of some kind. Too light wieght to be a freight car or caboose, though it might have been a crew car with benches to haul the loggers out to the woods.


fatpiecat2@charter.net

> Generally, square head bolts and nuts date
> to pre-1930's era. You will also find that
> sometime around the 1930's the threading on
> screws changed and became more standardized,
> which makes it interesting to restore old
> equipment since you can't get replacement
> screws and bolts in many cases.

We are using a mix of square-head and hex head bolts in restoring Georgia Northern 107, replacing what was there with a new part of the same style where necessary. This maintains the "character" of the locomotive developed over years of maintenance (1911 to about 1950). The square-head or millwright bolts and square nuts in various sizes have been, for the most part, readily available from Fastenal. They are not exact matches to what we have to replace, but retain the "look".

Stephen

ssyfrett@bellsouth.net

> Generally, square head bolts and nuts date
> to pre-1930's era. You will also find that
> sometime around the 1930's the threading on
> screws changed and became more standardized,
> which makes it interesting to restore old
> equipment since you can't get replacement
> screws and bolts in many cases. I concur, it
> looks like a speeder cart of some kind. Too
> light wieght to be a freight car or caboose,
> though it might have been a crew car with
> benches to haul the loggers out to the
> woods.

Traditionally, Stove Bolts came with square nuts that were punched out of sheet steel while Machine Screws (or bolts) came with hex nuts that were finished machined from hex stock. Because of the fact that square nuts were lower quality, ceaper, and typically what the local hardware store would stock, a fellow I used to do restoration work with called them "farmer's nuts", which seemed fitting.

McMaster Carr still lists square nuts in all common sizes from 6-32 up to 1 1/2"-6, which sould do for just about everything except truss rods.

While I have the catalog out, I see they also stock cast flat washers in sizes from 3/8" to 1". They list them as "structural washers" and mention Timber, #10 Western, and Victor as alternate names.

Dennis Storzek

dstorzek@elnet.com

> Traditionally, Stove Bolts came with square
> nuts that were punched out of sheet steel
> while Machine Screws (or bolts) came with
> hex nuts that were finished machined from
> hex stock. Because of the fact that square
> nuts were lower quality, ceaper, and
> typically what the local hardware store
> would stock, a fellow I used to do
> restoration work with called them
> "farmer's nuts", which seemed
> fitting.

> McMaster Carr still lists square nuts in all
> common sizes from 6-32 up to 1 1/2"-6,
> which sould do for just about everything
> except truss rods.

> While I have the catalog out, I see they
> also stock cast flat washers in sizes from
> 3/8" to 1". They list them as
> "structural washers" and mention
> Timber, #10 Western, and Victor as alternate
> names.

> Dennis Storzek

While working on the 6721 nyc 0-6-0 switcher here
in Utica I noticed a lot of bolts double nutted
without lock washers. Was/is this common practice
for engines of this vintage(1913)? There are also
many square headed bolts on this loco.

dmzlalo@aol.com

> Here's some more pictures from different
> angles:
One thing to remember is that the FRA regs require any motor car trailer used to haul people must be equipped with a brake mech. I feel that in looking at the photo's this car was probably constructed in the late 50's or 60's.

> Probably would be easiest to copy and paste
> these into your browser.

> http://www.brian894x4.com/tempRYPNcar1.jpg

> http://www.brian894x4.com/tempRYPNcar2.jpg

> http://www.brian894x4.com/tempRYPNcar3.jpg