Most of us know the story on NYC Mohawk 3001 and
how it escaped the torch but what about the 2933
in St.Louis? I've never heard the story.

dmzlalo@aol.com

> Most of us know the story on NYC Mohawk 3001
> and
> how it escaped the torch but what about the
> 2933
> in St.Louis? I've never heard the story.

I haven't heard the story on the 3001, could someone fill me in? Thanks

LL675@aol.com

> I haven't heard the story on the 3001, could
> someone fill me in? Thanks

David:

Here is the story as I recall it.

The Texas & Pacific Railroad donated one of their 2-10-4 locomotives (#638 as I recall) to Dallas only to have it badly vandalized to the point that it had to be scrapped(?) The folks in Dallas went to the T&P and asked for another locomotive but by this time, the railroad had none left. So they went to the New York Central and purchased # 3001 and modified it somewhat to resemble one of the T&P's 900 class 4-8-2's. Then many years later, the National New York Central Railroad Museum in Elkhart, Indiana, traded a Pennsylvania Railroad GG1 electric for the 3001 and moved the 4-8-2 to Elkhart where it is now on display.

Les Beckman (Hoosier Valley Railroad Museum/North Judson, Indiana)

midlandblb@cs.com

> David:

> Here is the story as I recall it.

> The Texas & Pacific Railroad donated one
> of their 2-10-4 locomotives (#638 as I
> recall) to Dallas only to have it badly
> vandalized to the point that it had to be
> scrapped(?)

I thought that's where the #610 came in? Guess I need a 610 story now. Thanks!

> I thought that's where the #610 came in?
> Guess I need a 610 story now. Thanks!

The T&P donated TWO of their 2-10-4's. The aforementioned 638 to Dallas (subsequently scrapped) and the 610 to Ft. Worth. The 610 fared better than the 638 and was eventually restored to service. I believe it is now down at the Texas State Railroad in Palestine, Texas. BTW, the only other T&P steamer preserved is 4-6-0 #316 which was sold to a short line railroad which eventually donated it to the City of Abilene. That loco I believe, is also now at the Texas State Railroad and I believe it too was restored to service.

midlandblb@cs.com

> The T&P donated TWO of their 2-10-4's.
> The aforementioned 638 to Dallas
> (subsequently scrapped) and the 610 to Ft.
> Worth. The 610 fared better than the 638 and
> was eventually restored to service. I
> believe it is now down at the Texas State
> Railroad in Palestine, Texas. BTW, the only
> other T&P steamer preserved is 4-6-0
> #316 which was sold to a short line railroad
> which eventually donated it to the City of
> Abilene. That loco I believe, is also now at
> the Texas State Railroad and I believe it
> too was restored to service.

Les,
Let's not forget FW&D 2-8-2 #410 which was purchased by the T&P for flood duty at Shreveport, LA. It was numbered T&P #400. The locomotive was donated to the town of Marshall, TX, for display and the BHRS website indicates that it is "locked in a metal building labeled asbestos hazard." Anyone in east Texas have any further information on the disposition of this locomotive?

Don C.


milw261@sbcglobal.net

> Les,
> Let's not forget FW&D 2-8-2 #410 which
> was purchased by the T&P for flood duty
> at Shreveport, LA. It was numbered T&P
> #400. The locomotive was donated to the town
> of Marshall, TX, for display and the BHRS
> website indicates that it is "locked in
> a metal building labeled asbestos
> hazard." Anyone in east Texas have any
> further information on the disposition of
> this locomotive?

> Don C.

That is correct, it has been enclosed right where it stood inside a metal building. Every now and then, I pass by to check on it; but the building never appears to be open.

It is not far from the restored depot.

-James Hefner
Hebrews 10:20a

Surviving World Steam Project
james@survivingworldsteam.com

N/M

> Les,
> Let's not forget FW&D 2-8-2 #410 which
> was purchased by the T&P for flood duty
> at Shreveport, LA. It was numbered T&P
> #400. The locomotive was donated to the town
> of Marshall, TX, for display and the BHRS
> website indicates that it is "locked in
> a metal building labeled asbestos
> hazard." Anyone in east Texas have any
> further information on the disposition of
> this locomotive?

> Don C.

Don:

As soon as I saw the subject of your message, I hit myself in the head for forgetting # 400. She was a later day addition to the T&P roster, long after the T&P had disposed of their last steamer.
I am not sure how many times the T&P used her for flood duty. At least once that I know of. Sad to hear that she is "tucked away" like she is. But at least she is apparently out of the weather.
BTW, I always think of her as a Burlington Lines engine and not as a T&P engine (FW&D was owned by the Q.) With all those engines that have been restored in Texas over the years, I wonder if anyone every gave any thought to trying to put her back in service. Even with her..."problem."

Les

midlandblb@cs.com

NYC #2933 seems to be the only modern loco that the line ever donated to anyone. I believe it was last used as a snow melter in Elkhart, Indiana, and I don't know if that was really a need or a way to "hide" a steamer. In any case once it was surplus to that use the Museum of Transportation was able to get it donated direct from the NYC in 1963. There is some coverage of this in Trains magazine, including some speculation if it would be available for a fan trip a few years earlier. As others have posted, the other Mohawk was saved by a fluke. We also have Boston & Albany (NYC) 4-4-0 #39, "Marmora," of 1876 which came to us via Purdue University and its collection, and electric NYC S-motor #113 of 1906. The NYC also saved the relic #999, but any others were saved by a second owner, usually a short line.


Museum of Transportation
rdgoldfede@aol.com

NYC Mohawk 3001/ex-T&P 909 is in much better place now. The story about it, however, surely spotlights a double injustice to the T&P's good citizenship in twice providing a steam locomotive to Dallas.
By the way, there is another steam locomotive with NYC ties in Fairview, Okla. A 2-8-0, I think. It was sold to the Orient or Santa Fe which explains why it ended up in Oklahoma.

> Don:

> As soon as I saw the subject of your
> message, I hit myself in the head for
> forgetting # 400. She was a later day
> addition to the T&P roster, long after
> the T&P had disposed of their last
> steamer.
> I am not sure how many times the T&P
> used her for flood duty. At least once that
> I know of. Sad to hear that she is
> "tucked away" like she is. But at
> least she is apparently out of the weather.
> BTW, I always think of her as a Burlington
> Lines engine and not as a T&P engine
> (FW&D was owned by the Q.) With all
> those engines that have been restored in
> Texas over the years, I wonder if anyone
> every gave any thought to trying to put her
> back in service. Even with
> her..."problem."

> Les

Les:

She's a big Mike,and other than the Austin and Texas Central,she would be too big for anyone else to think about running.Asbestos abatement should not be a big deal,but if you have the bucks to fix I knew we can run her....

kbcotton@flash.net

> NYC #2933 seems to be the only modern loco
> that the line ever donated to anyone. I
> believe it was last used as a snow melter in
> Elkhart, Indiana, and I don't know if that
> was really a need or a way to
> "hide" a steamer. In any case once
> it was surplus to that use the Museum of
> Transportation was able to get it donated
> direct from the NYC in 1963. There is some
> coverage of this in Trains magazine,
> including some speculation if it would be
> available for a fan trip a few years
> earlier. As others have posted, the other
> Mohawk was saved by a fluke. We also have
> Boston & Albany (NYC) 4-4-0 #39,
> "Marmora," of 1876 which came to
> us via Purdue University and its collection,
> and electric NYC S-motor #113 of 1906. The
> NYC also saved the relic #999, but any
> others were saved by a second owner, usually
> a short line.

This still doesn't get us to the period 1957 which
is the last time the Central likely ran her to
1963. How did it escape the torch. From what I
can asertain the Central re;Pealman & Young scrapped steam with some zeal. I think I read about the T&P boss being buddys with AL Pearlman
which accounts for the 3001 but the 2933 remains
a mystery.The Santa Fe 2522(ex NYC 2976)2-8-0
in Fairview,OK was sold to the KC,M&O in the
1920's that road being first leased then sold to
the Santa Fe.Oil burner I believe.I dont think
the 6 axle tender is original NYC but i may be
wrong about that. Answers PLEASE.

dmzlalo@aol.com

> This still doesn't get us to the period 1957
> which
> is the last time the Central likely ran her
> to
> 1963. How did it escape the torch. From what
> I
> can asertain the Central re;Pealman &
> Young scrapped steam with some zeal. I think
> I read about the T&P boss being buddys
> with AL Pearlman
> which accounts for the 3001 but the 2933
> remains
> a mystery.The Santa Fe 2522(ex NYC
> 2976)2-8-0
> in Fairview,OK was sold to the KC,M&O in
> the
> 1920's that road being first leased then
> sold to
> the Santa Fe.Oil burner I believe.I dont
> think
> the 6 axle tender is original NYC but i may
> be
> wrong about that. Answers PLEASE.

I am sure that the six wheel tender now on ex-NYC 2-8-0 # 2976 was a later Santa Fe addition. As for the 2933, I remember seeing a photo of her in TRAINS at a date when other NYC steam had all gone to the torch (I don't think she was at Elkhart but I may be wrong.) Why she lasted so long is a mystery to me too. I hope someone has a logical answer. Also a bit curious as to why she ended up at MofT. The Museum seemed to have a "one locomotive of each wheel arrangement" policy and they already had Frisco 4-8-2 #1522 by that time. I think there may have been some pressure on the NYC to restore the 2933 to service ala the Reading Iron Horse Rambles that were taken the east by storm at that time and maybe the Central hastily donated her to get her off of the property and blunt any talk of operation. Sure would have been nice to see her run again though. She was technically "dual service" and would have looked real nice pulling a string of heavyweights or more modern NYC lightweight equipment. And the NYC went to some BIG markets systemwide. But in those days, the railroad was doing its best to get out of the passenger business. What would have happended if they had made money running her on excursions? A chilling thought to management I'm sure. So all the more reason for the road to get her the heck off of the property! Too much bad publicity would have probably resulted if they had scrapped her at that late date so MofT was likely a good alternative.

midlandblb@cs.com

Don't know if this is meaningful, but I have seen photos of the 2933 sitting in the partly-demolished roundhouse at Selkirk, taken (I think) in 1959 or 1960, before it went to MOT. The footprint of this roundhouse can be seen faintly today from the NY 396 bridge over the yard.

ryarger@rypn.org