Hi Friends,

So it looks like Steamtown's public announcements are the tip of the proverbial iceberg up in the Electric City.

There is another sideshow going on that has or will impact Steamtown to a great extent. There is an effort afoot at the county level to disband the Lackawanna County rail authority -- the agency that has saved an re-opened the frieght and excursions lines the stretch from Carbondale all the way to Portland with assorted branchlines, and contracts with the D-L for operations.

The rail authority is generally regarded as one of the great success stories in local rail revitalization. Without it, Scranton would have far more abandoned grades. It is the rail authority that worked creatively with Steamtown and the trolley museum to use their tracks. It is the rail authority that worked with designated operators to rebuild rail traffic in the region.

Now, however, there is a political attack -- and knowing Scranton politics, I would bet there's the typical nepotisim and cronyism behind it -- to radically change the system of management of the county's rail affairs. See link below.

We can go on about railfan support of Steamtown and all that, but when it comes down to it, the people in charge need to find a way to get it done. In Scranton, that has never been easy given the corruption that has plauged the city and county.

Stay tuned, but I would bet that the disrruption caused by the county mess has something to do with Steamtown's decision... that's just my guess...

Rob



http://www.scrantontimes.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=
trains@robertjohndavis.com

Scranton Times article
LNER4472-NOSPAM-@bcpl.net

The linked Scranton article is enlightening and your assessment probably spot-on.

If the railroad preservation community had its mess together, fiddling with Steamtown would be -- no pun intended -- a political 3rd rail on the local, state and national level. I refer back to a key point made in the RYPN post labeled "Politics and Railroad Preservation" shown not far below. Railroad preservationists are close to politically impotent.

We spend far too much time arguing whether the proper abbreviation for Steamtown is STEA or SNHS. In the interim, our message never gets heard, our requests never get made, and we get neither favorable public policies nor the share of public funds our numbers suggest we should have.

Heck fire, we can't even agree on a cohesive message! Sometimes were are too busy organizing and participating in circular firing squads.

OBTW. Written your Congressman and Senators yet?

amiller@rtms-movietrains.com

Never has been a Dull moment a Steamtown.
-justin

qcmrs18@yahoo.com

>Rob, This is definately not business as usual @ Scranton. There is a school of thought that authorities (of which Lackawana County has something like 17-YES, SEVENTEEN) remove accountability from the elected officials.

For those that don't know, Lackawanna County was reliably Democrat for DECADES. There's a tale that Richard J. Dailey Sr. of Chicago was once quoted as saying I wish I had a machine like Scranton's.

This is changing, as the old industrial base is passing on and what little incoming population there is tends to be coming from different backgrounds and is moving to surrounding 'burbs.

The notice was first given in '98 when Pat Casey, son of the former governor-lost to Rep. Sherwood by a few hundred votes. In 2000, he lost by thousands. Hasn't run for anything since.

The 2003 election displaced the former democratic majority and put in a Republican majority. This was the political equivalent of a tsunami is Scranton.

They are looking at these 17 "authorities" and looking to consolidate them, in the face of projected losses in population and an eroding tax base.

Of course there's people who've largely been rubber stamped by their respective boards and well, they aren't going to go quietly.

That having been said, Larry Malski was a Democatic appointee, put on the Commonwealth of PA's rail freight advisory commission by the late Gov. Casey and connected with the old guard.

Of course this being represented as political retribution. The truth is most political appointees go when there's a change of administration. When Gov. Rendell came aboard, all of the Secretaries/Deputy Secretaries from the Ridge/Schweiker days left. Feather Houston, formerly of SEPTA, left her post and now is in the private sector. Thats reality.

Truth be told, changes need to be made in Lackawanna County. Local politicians have been very good at using tax dollars for conspicuous benefits with hidden costs. Every new project is touted as the goose that lays the golden egg. Prudential was recruited as a stable employer with all kinds of state and local inducements (aka corporate welfare) and those of us who are alumni can tell you about the layoffs that started shortly after a 1994 5 year celebration attended by the Governor and all the local bigshots.

I remember being in grad school years ago at a local institution and a local government employee classmate related how a local government lost track of several hundred thousand dollars, alerted only when the bank sent a final letter to alert that government (as owner) that due to (YEARS OF) inactivity the account was about to be considered an "orphan account" and escheated to the Commonwealth.

That having been said revolutions often take otherwise competent folks as victims. Larry participated in Ray Sauvey's rail history course of few years ago and was a font of knowledge. I think he'll land on his feet if not in Lackawanna County somewhere else.



superheater@rrmail.com

I don't know, Super. I have some information (not at liberty to share -- you know how that goes) that it is indeed politics as usual in Scranton. You can hang any kind of party name on the door, but corruption is corruption.

We'll see...

N one mentioned here, but mine subsidence took out the Carbondale line two weeks ago below Archbald!



trains@robertjohndavis.com

> I don't know, Super. I have some information
> (not at liberty to share -- you know how
> that goes) that it is indeed politics as
> usual in Scranton. You can hang any kind of
> party name on the door, but corruption is
> corruption.

> We'll see...

> N one mentioned here, but mine subsidence
> took out the Carbondale line two weeks ago
> below Archbald!

I'm always wary of secret sources- corruption is always easy to charge-especially in the middle of regime change and I believe we should always have a right to face accusers-i'll send you something offline.

Of course, the prior regime was pretty corrupt in many ways. I remember how they staged a faux opening of the trolley museum in 1999 just before the election.

Time will tell if there's any substance or if we just have sore losers- knowing the politics of the area- I suspect the latter. I don't much believe in salvation by politics so I have no party ax to grind.



superheater@rrmail.com

> I concur that the insurance issue is but one of many that has caused Steamtown to shut down its excursion program.

Larry Malski and his Lackawanna County RR Authority certainly deserve much credit for saving,re-building and generating new shippers for the Scranton-DWG line. Without his devoted efforts there's little doubt that this line would have been ripped up.

However,the dilema now is that with the newly gotten on line shippers plus some run through NS trains the line is solidly profitable and should be returned to the private sector as a tax paying,stand alone entity,not a publically owned entity competing unfairly(no taxes etc.) with the private sector. That's fundamentally what's behind the County Commissioners move to abolish the LCRRA and I'm afraid they're right.

I'm confident that based on its current level of traffic that there will be a good number of regional/shortline bidders at the table when the County puts it up for sale, and depending on who gets it will largely determine the passenger trains future on this line.

Another ingredient in the Steamtown shutdown is the derailment last fall in the DWG. I'm told that it has caused much heat between the DLW/S'TOWN people in arguing whose fault(DLWtrack/S'towns train) it was and thus whose responsible for the costs!

I've long held that the main ingredient working against Steamtown ever being able to generate visitorship numbers anywhere near what they'd need to be to justify the immense public investment in the plant is the fact that Scranton is not and never will be a tourist destination city. This coupled with all the silly/needless NPS rules & regulations(i.e. no photo run-bys, stay in your car-no walking thru the train, etc. etc.) has produced the paltry(and declining) numbers to date. Now with the excursions gone the high likelyhood is that these already poor #'s will plummet.

This may well prove to be a blessing in disguise as Steamtown is already one of the costliest (cost/visitor)parks in the system and if the attendance plummets further it might just convince the bean counters in DC to finally cry uncle and lease it into the private sector where it would have at least some chance of becoming self-sufficient. There are many days now in the off season where the paid staff far exceeds the number of paid visitors! Only your government could do that!!
Steamtown has a magnificent physical plant and is blessed with an above average railroad trip and could make an important contribution towards keeping the steam heritage story alive and well for future generations, let's hope the NPS crys uncle sooner than later!

One mans opinion! Ross RowlandHi Friends,

> So it looks like Steamtown's public
> announcements are the tip of the proverbial
> iceberg up in the Electric City.

> There is another sideshow going on that has
> or will impact Steamtown to a great extent.
> There is an effort afoot at the county level
> to disband the Lackawanna County rail
> authority -- the agency that has saved an
> re-opened the frieght and excursions lines
> the stretch from Carbondale all the way to
> Portland with assorted branchlines, and
> contracts with the D-L for operations.

> The rail authority is generally regarded as
> one of the great success stories in local
> rail revitalization. Without it, Scranton
> would have far more abandoned grades. It is
> the rail authority that worked creatively
> with Steamtown and the trolley museum to use
> their tracks. It is the rail authority that
> worked with designated operators to rebuild
> rail traffic in the region.

> Now, however, there is a political attack --
> and knowing Scranton politics, I would bet
> there's the typical nepotisim and cronyism
> behind it -- to radically change the system
> of management of the county's rail affairs.
> See link below.

> We can go on about railfan support of
> Steamtown and all that, but when it comes
> down to it, the people in charge need to
> find a way to get it done. In Scranton, that
> has never been easy given the corruption
> that has plauged the city and county.

> Stay tuned, but I would bet that the
> disrruption caused by the county mess has
> something to do with Steamtown's decision...
> that's just my guess...

> Rob


rrowland@weidel.com

Re these points:

> Larry Malski and his Lackawanna County RR
> Authority certainly deserve much credit for
> saving,re-building and generating new
> shippers for the Scranton-DWG line. Without
> his devoted efforts there's little doubt
> that this line would have been ripped up.

On this I totally agree. But if it happens again that it needs to be saved can we hope to be so lucky?

> However,the dilema now is that with the
> newly gotten on line shippers plus some run
> through NS trains the line is solidly
> profitable and should be returned to the
> private sector as a tax paying,stand alone
> entity,not a publically owned entity
> competing unfairly(no taxes etc.) with the
> private sector. That's fundamentally what's
> behind the County Commissioners move to
> abolish the LCRRA and I'm afraid they're
> right.

Here I'm going to disagree. There have been only a handful of detour NS moves over the line, and those were account of trackwork, no regular NS moves. And no more should be expected. The "solidly profitable" is also questionable. Especially should the line have to be purchased and taxes paid on it. Currently the line's east half only sees three trains per week. And its future traffic could be quite risky. "Should" (as an example) NS buy the D&H the D-L could find itself with no reason for maintaining a NS interchange in Portland when it could be done in Scranton easier and cheaper and better. Without the NS interchange the line would have to depend on local traffic. The line has one good customer. Never a sure bet for long life. Beside the grain business there are only five or six other customers, all small timers.

Plus the line's best long term future is most likely as part of a passenger route in/out of NYC. (Which means government ownership anyway. Why sell it now only to have to buy it back in a couple of years? Probably at twice the cost.)

As for "competing unfairly". that's always a matter of opinion. Its not competing with other railroads as the LCRA only serves local customers. A argument could be made re trucks, but one can always argue there that trucks don't pay their fair share all the time either. Of couse the biggest question is how "solidly profitable" it really is and would be. (Do you sell it now, let someone live off the good condition its in for a few years and take the money then bail out when it reaches the state the LCRA found it in?)

> I'm confident that based on its current
> level of traffic that there will be a good
> number of regional/shortline bidders at the
> table when the County puts it up for sale,
> and depending on who gets it will largely
> determine the passenger trains future on
> this line.

See above rant, but I've my doubts there would be a lot of railroads stumbling over themselves to buy the line. As a operator, yes, as a stand alone purchase, no, as it wouldn't come cheap. I'm not saying there would be no interest, but the cost vs return could get iffy, especially depending on how the D&H situation plays out. AND weither or not the rest of the Scranton trackage is included (ie, the lines to Carbondale and the Laurel Line). Without the local Scranton traffic there is no bridge traffic for the DWG line. The trackage didn't fair too well under private ownership before, why hope it does better this time? Why take the risk? It works, and works well (not something you can always say about government.)

(I'll skip the Steamtown discussion! (For now.)

G. McKee, also just one man's opinion. Guess time will tell.


gmkee@insightbb.com

>>I've attempted to respond directly to you at the e-mail address you used on your post and my system says it's no good? Please send me a good e-address. Thanks, Ross Rowland
>
> be quite risky.
> "Should" (as an example) NS buy
> the D&H the D-L could find itself with
> no reason for maintaining a NS interchange
> in Portland when it could be done in
> Scranton easier and cheaper and better.
> Without the NS interchange the line would
> have to depend on local traffic. The line
> has one good customer. Never a sure bet for
> long life. Beside the grain business there
> are only five or six other customers, all
> small timers.

> Plus the line's best long term future is
> most likely as part of a passenger route
> in/out of NYC. (Which means government
> ownership anyway. Why sell it now only to
> have to buy it back in a couple of years?
> Probably at twice the cost.)

> As for "competing unfairly".
> that's always a matter of opinion. Its not
> competing with other railroads as the LCRA
> only serves local customers. A argument
> could be made re trucks, but one can always
> argue there that trucks don't pay their fair
> share all the time either. Of couse the
> biggest question is how "solidly
> profitable" it really is and would be.
> (Do you sell it now, let someone live off
> the good condition its in for a few years
> and take the money then bail out when it
> reaches the state the LCRA found it in?)

> See above rant, but I've my doubts there
> would be a lot of railroads stumbling over
> themselves to buy the line. As a operator,
> yes, as a stand alone purchase, no, as it
> wouldn't come cheap. I'm not saying there
> would be no interest, but the cost vs return
> could get iffy, especially depending on how
> the D&H situation plays out. AND weither
> or not the rest of the Scranton trackage is
> included (ie, the lines to Carbondale and
> the Laurel Line). Without the local Scranton
> traffic there is no bridge traffic for the
> DWG line. The trackage didn't fair too well
> under private ownership before, why hope it
> does better this time? Why take the risk? It
> works, and works well (not something you can
> always say about government.)

> (I'll skip the Steamtown discussion! (For
> now.)

> G. McKee, also just one man's opinion. Guess
> time will tell.


rrowland@weidel.com

It is too early to decide how the Lackawanna County vs. Lackawanna County Rail Authority battle is going to turn out. However, it is not unusual these days for a freight line to be owned by a local or state government and operated by a private operator. The Vermont Railway and the Green Mountain have been doing it for over 40 years now. All of the NYS&W's track in New York State is owned by the counties it runs through.

If Lackawanna County decided to sell, I assume there would be a lot of conditions to protect Scranton-Hoboken passenger service. This alone would greatly reduce the value of the property. Also, there is a Monroe County Rail Authority that owns the line east of Mt. Pocono. They pay a fee to the LCRA to manage their portion of the line. AFIK Monroe County has no plans to dissolve its Rail Authority which again would reduce the value of a sale of the other part.

Under the current arrangement the DL pays 10% of its revenue to the LCRA. The DL is responsible for maintenance so this money is "free and clear" to the LCRA. Has anyone figured out how much revenue the County gets because of new industries located on the line, old industrie that didn't leave, and tax dollars for those employed in these industries.

tstuy@no-spam-eldcps.org