Whatever one might say about Steamtown, I have to give Scranton credit for its support of the museum. The editorial below is one of the best I have ever read:

http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=11758047&BRD=2185&PAG=461&dept_id=416045&rfi=8
ryarger@rypn.org

> Whatever one might say about Steamtown, I
> have to give Scranton credit for its support
> of the museum. The editorial below is one of
> the best I have ever read:

Bob, I agree that's a great editorial. How fortunate we are to have the Scranton Times Tribune supporting mainline steam! The newspaper plays an important role in Scranton-area politics; in fact, it was former managing editor Ed Rogers of the then-Scranton Times that first suggested the City of Scranton pursue the Steamtown collection. In response to the editorial, I sent the following letter (which I do not know whether or not if it will be printed).

Your recent editorials about Steamtown excursions being essential to "living museum concept" are right on. Though few of your readers probably realize it, Scranton should be the only place in the United States where the mainline steam can be experienced by the general public on a regular basis. The Steamtown National Historic Site currently has two (soon to be three--thanks to a ten year funding drive by the local Lackawanna and Wyoming Valley Chapter, NRHS) large, mainline steam locomotives serviceable that deserve the opportunity to climb the grades on the Pocono Main out of Scranton and show the public-at-large what the Grand Age of Steam Railroading was all about. Your newspaper is right; no other railroad museum does (or even has the potential to do) that! For the sake of Steamtown's critics, let's name them all: B&O Museum (Baltimore, Maryland); National Museum of Transport (St. Louis, Missouri); National Railroad Museum (Green Bay, Wisconsin); California State Railroad Museum (Sacramento, California); Illinois Railway Museum (Union, Illinois); North Carolina Museum of Transport (Spencer, North Carolina); Pennsylvania Railroad Museum (Strasburg, Pennsylvania). Folks, those are some pretty impressive places, but none of them operate mainline steam. Scranton has something really special!

As one who personally knew Steamtowm's late founder, F. Nelson Blount, I can assure you his dream was not to see his locomotive collection become another "stuffed and mounted" display. As he looks down from his beloved Heaven today, I'm sure he's somewhat dismayed about the recent dialogue about the insurance crisis surrounding the mainline steam excursion program at Steamtown NHS. As a businessman, Blount would have taken the insurance issues all in stride: knowing that a workable, but more costly, resolution is around the corner. However, what he would be having a real hard time with is Steamtown spokesperson Ralph Coury's frequent comments about this year's reduction in the mainline steam program and the transfer of monies into interpretive programs. Indeed, the future of mainline steam excursions out of Scranton probably does not hinge as much on the solution of the current insurance crisis as it does on what's in Steamtown's recently completed (and to date, highly secretive) Comprehensive Interpretive Plan which, according to the Steamtown NHS website, will govern Steamtown's program for the next five to seven years.

Frederick G. Bailey (former Steamtown Foundation Director of Operations and Assistant General Manager)

To keep mainline steam alive out of Scranton, we now need not only the support of the politicians the Times Tribune is suggesting but the railfan/railroad preservation community as well. Just yesterday afternoon, I received a highly disturbing letter regarding the NPS wanting to change a contractual obligation involving the restoration of Boston & Maine 4-6-2 #3713. Believe me, folks, if we as a railfan/preservation community want to see #3713 highballing on the mainline in the future, now is the time to join the politicians in a united stand on mainline steam operation out of Scranton.

fred.gracebailey@earthlink.net

> I would agree with Mr. Bailey that Steamtown is blessed with physical assets(particularly the ride up the 1.5% grade out of Scranton)that give it a unique opportunity to showcase our steam heritage in a dramatic memorable way!

It seems powerfully clear that as long as the NPS is in charge that will never happen. Anyone who has suffered through one of thier trips(the longer the trip,the worse the torture)has experienced the moronic rules&regulations they employ(i.e.-NO photo run-bys, stay in your coach- no walking through the train,Smokie Bears around packing side-arms etc. etc.) making the final product a customer UNFRIENDLY, "I'll never do this again" experience. Why do you think that thier attendance has been on a steady, relentless decline since thier "Grand Opening" in 1995? Because people went home and raved about thier experience??

Seems to me that now is the opportune time to explore "privitizing" the place through either a sale or long term lease so that a private sector operator who knows how to promote/operate what is essentially a family entertainment enterprise can come in and drive the attendance from its current dismal levels(this year it will fall below 100,000) to the 500,000/yr. which it should attract.Steamtown is one of the most costly of all the National Parks in terms of cost per visitor and with the current budget crunch will come under increasing scrutiny in DC. Hopefully this will lead to the NPS admitting that a private sector solution is what the place must have to prosper.

It's also abundantly clear that the longer the NPS stays in charge the worse things will get for mainline steam. The "museum types" within the NPS operation are clearly winning the day and will use whatever Red Herrings are then available( insurance costs,"public safety", lack of engines etc. etc.)to whittle down the active program even further until the place becomes another "stuffed&mounted" mosoleum.

I believe that those of us who truly believe that maintaining and running an agressive excursion program should be a vital part of the Scranton operation should work together to lobby the decision makers in DC to get THE NPS out of there so the place has some prayer of a brighter future.

Ross Rowland
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> Frederick G. Bailey (former Steamtown
> Foundation Director of Operations and
> Assistant General Manager)

> To keep mainline steam alive out of
> Scranton, we now need not only the support
> of the politicians the Times Tribune is
> suggesting but the railfan/railroad
> preservation community as well. Just
> yesterday afternoon, I received a highly
> disturbing letter regarding the NPS wanting
> to change a contractual obligation involving
> the restoration of Boston & Maine 4-6-2
> #3713. Believe me, folks, if we as a
> railfan/preservation community want to see
> #3713 highballing on the mainline in the
> future, now is the time to join the
> politicians in a united stand on mainline
> steam operation out of Scranton.


rrowland@weidel.com

> Though
> few of your readers probably realize it,
> Scranton should be the only place in the
> United States where the mainline steam can
> be experienced by the general public on a
> regular basis.

Fred,

Two corrections...

I believe that there are other places where mainline steam runs regularly in the US. The Western Maryland Scenic certainly qualifies.

In fact, the Wild Mary is a good example of just how far the NPS has to go. They have kept their 2-8-0 climbing the hills there year in and year out... when she had a failure, they borrowed parts and got her back rolling.

On a second note, with Steamtown's curtailed operating plans, their efforts are similar to the Ohio Central's schedule... a road that also puts mainline steam out there.

Steamtown has the *potential* for many "only in Scranton" accolades, but they have yet to be realized on a consistent basis.

Rob



trains@robertjohndavis.com

It's great to see the Scranton Times support rail preservation. It almost makes up for them jumping on the bandwagon to blow up downtown Scranton 15 years ago.

;-)

trains@robertjohndavis.com

> It seems powerfully clear that as long as
> the NPS is in charge that will never happen.

The kiss-of-death of any venture of this type is to get a government agency...ANY government agency...involved. Once that happens, the people who know what they're doing lose control and it's all downhill from there.

> "I'll never do this again"

...is what people will be saying when they drive hundreds of miles to Cumberland only to have the aesthetic appeal and photogenic purity of a ride on the Scenic Railway spoiled by a chain link fence along the right-of-way all the way from Frostburg to Cumberland.

Why, you ask, would they do something that stupid?
Because they (State of Maryland, Allegany County, City of Cumberland, et. al.) let somebody (the Allegheny Highlands Trail Commission) get a little bit of control of their railroad.

> Seems to me that now is the opportune time
> to explore "privitizing" the place

Privatization should be, and always should have been, the method of choice. How many more Steamtowns is it going to take for preservationists to learn that lesson?



gerald_altizer@charter.net

> Because they (State of Maryland, Allegany
> County, City of Cumberland, et. al.) let
> somebody (the Allegheny Highlands Trail
> Commission) get a little bit of control of
> their railroad.

Politics are also the reason Jack Showalter got the boot out of Cumberland.

trains@robertjohndavis.com

As I don't want to use guesswork, can anyone give us Steamtown's train riding rules and their explanation of why these are needed? We've seen them mentioned several times, and as I've never been there, I can't judge if they are as bad as described.

rdgoldfede@aol.com

Mr. Yarger:

Thanks for your thoughtful posting of the Scranton Times editorial. It generated a sincere and earnest discussion of SNHS policies, problems, and opportunities. And I hope this thread expands and runs for some time.

While my experience in railroad preservation is primarily in the Southeast, the issues raised are not unique. For example, I was ot aware that there was a fence along the Western Maryland right-of-way. [Say, Joe, that it ain't true.] If so, it represents a serious over extension of the Rail-Trail lobby's power and an intrusion on someone else's turf.

There are great lessons in all of this recent RYPN back and forth involving policy and politics. One of them is, if a railroad museum or preservation SIG (special interest group) does not control its own future and do so in an decisive manner, some other SIG with more clout likely will. And you may not like the outcome.

A final thought: Does your railroad preservation group really and truly have political clout? If you cannot think of a specific public policy that is highly favorable* to your organization, then the answer is likely "no."

* "Favorable" loosely is defined as generating cash (grants; inclusion in the area school systems' "must-see" list for field trips); cash equivalents (highway signage, tax relief); or providing a unique protection (like keeping the bicycle lobby at bay).

amiller@rtms-movietrains.com

> I was not aware that there was a fence along
> the Western Maryland right-of-way.

The fence is not installed yet, but the funding has been there for some time. There are 3.8 miles of track that need to be realigned first. The Western Maryland service road is the only place to walk now, and it crosses the track numerous times.


gerald_altizer@charter.net

> Privatization should be, and always should
> have been, the method of choice. How many
> more Steamtowns is it going to take for
> preservationists to learn that lesson?

On the other hand: broadly speaking, if this kind of activity were profitable, the private sector would already be providing it. Becuase it is not profitable and never will be, we end up looking to the public sector.

Private sector operators who do this (I'm thinking variously of Ohio Central, Strasburg, and D&S) do it essentially out of the personal charity and personal passion of the individual owners. That charity, while estimable, and while it has afforded me many fantastic experiences for which I am deeply grateful, is not likely to outlast the founder or at most the founder and the next generation.

It is not in my opinion a solid basis upon which to build large-scale preservation organizations that will outlive us.



eledbetter@rypn.org

> The fence is not installed yet, but the
> funding has been there for some time. There
> are 3.8 miles of track that need to be
> realigned first. The Western Maryland
> service road is the only place to walk now,
> and it crosses the track numerous times.

If that fence is ever put into place, it will never come down. I wonder why/how the WM folks (1) allowed the "thing" to ever get funded; and (2) got themselves into having to accept the "thing" in the first place.

Sounds like a lack of "clout." Regardless, a thorough review of the whole situation likely would teach all a serious lesson in politics, public policy, and political power.

Recommended reading: The Dance of Legislation, Eric Redmon.

> If that fence is ever put into place, it
> will never come down. I wonder why/how the
> WM folks (1) allowed the "thing"
> to ever get funded; and (2) got themselves
> into having to accept the "thing"
> in the first place.

> Sounds like a lack of "clout."

The City of Cumberland owns the right of way. WMSRR is a completely political creation, conceived of, funded by, and publically controlled as an economic development tool for the City of Cumberland and the State of Maryland. It is not a museum or an independent noprofit enterprise--it has no members, no volunteers, no friends group, etc. In a sense there are no "WM folks" like there are for example "TVRM folks"--just a few employees of the WMSRR operating franchise, which is itself a creature of the local and state goverment.

The WMSRR's financial masters' only interest is getting tourists into town--it is not, in the eyes of its financial backers, a preservation enterprise (though the amazing WMSRR staff has doen a good job of making it one).

So, lack of clout--that's one way to look at it. But another way to look at it is that WMSRR has been subsidized and funded by the public from day one for a narrow economic development purpose, and that sharing the ROW with the trails is part of the price of dancing with the one who brought ya--the City and State tourist development people.

The railroad staff have been forthright about the safety concerns and the practicalities, but in the end the City and the State are just following the dollars in pursuit of their economic devleopment mandate. If the train alone pumps less money into the city than the train + trail, it's move over train and make room for the trail--on the orders of the railroads own ultimate owners.

eledbetter@rypn.org

Thanks for the update and the additional information.

Wonder why railroad preservationists have not moved in to claim turf in the same way that the bicyclers seem to have done?

As previously noted, public policy responds to vacuums. Turf -- particularly something as attractive as the WM region and a steam train --that is unprotected by policy and an active Special Interest Group will soon be claimed by another SIG with its own policy and program objectives. Also as previously noted, railroad preservationists may not like the results.

As an example of the excessive territoriality of the bicycle people, here is a message from the usenet group, alt.railroad:

> What I'd like to know if there has ever been a recreation trail converted
> BACK to rail.

> Does anyone know of such a case.

wish I did, at least in the USA, locally (Baltimore Maryland USA) the local transit authority wanted to reuse a section of converted rail trail to extend a light rail line about a mile. The right of way was 66 ft wide
and the trail would remain and in fact be upgraded, the folks especially the politicians went balistic and the state legislature threatened to pull up to 10% of the transit systems entire funding if they pressed ahead with the project...

The light rail line still ends at a park and ride just outside where it needs to be.... Bob