Steamtown should have gotten at least something of the same power as the 1218, I Think a few more GP9's would be in order. However it is true that it had a good, although vary short (Only five years) excursion life.When you think about it the engine never had a farewell run. Today I think it has a good home, next to another thoroughbred of steam, N&W 611. It will be ten years this December since the fire was droped on NS steam.
-Justin Franz



qcmrs18@yahoo.com

I seem to remember that the D&H was at the time owned by Dereco, Inc., a holding company subsidiary of N&W. So the D&H's willingness to retrieve the engine is not a complete surprise! -- Ray

> It sure was at the Vermont site--and that's
> where it "disappeared" from during
> some unbearably cold northern New England
> weather back in the late 1960's. The saga of
> how #1218 got out of Bellows Falls has been
> the subject of debate for many years, and
> now that the locomotive has finally been
> laid to rest, wouldn't it be neat if the
> true story could be told. One person who
> posts here frequently could tell us exactly
> what happened if he so chooses to do so as
> he was directly involved in the negotiations
> to move the locomotive to Roanoke; I'll let
> his name remain anonymous unless he decides
> to tell his version of the story.

> It's interesting how this story jogs
> memories of some "oldtimers". I
> just got of the phone with R. W. Adams who
> was F. Nelson Blount's Steamtown
> Superintendant in the very early Steamtown
> era and who became owner and President of
> the Green Mountain RR after Nelson's death,
> and we had an interesting chat about how
> #1218 departed Steamtown. It seems that in
> the dead of Winter, the Green Mountain RR
> received a call from its connecting carrier
> to the north, the Delaware & Hudson,
> that it needed urgently to move #1218 out of
> Riverside. Not wanting to get involved in
> digging out a frozen-in steam locomotive and
> preparing it for shipment, the D&H was
> told if they wanted it that bad--then they
> could come and get! To the GMRC's surprise,
> they said they would.

> Shortly thereafter, a tall, lanky fellow
> from a well known mainline excursion
> operator showed up on the scene to prepare
> #1218 for shipment. Bob remembers him
> huddling beside the GMRC roundhouse furnace
> trying to warm up after numerous trips to
> Riverside in the frigid weather to work on
> #1218 and dig her out. Once the 2-6-6-4 was
> ready, arrangements were made to have a
> D&H train run over the GMRC from Rutland
> to Riverside to pick up the steamer. The
> D&H sent two RS-3's. eight empty hopper
> cars, and a caboose--operated by a D&H
> crew with a GMRC pilot. After picking up the
> steamer at Riverside, the little train
> headed back north to the D&H interchange
> in Rutland--making frequent stops enroute so
> that "the tall, lanky fellow"
> could make sure the Class A wasn't running
> "hot". Somewhere, in a
> long-forgotten slide box, I have slides that
> I took of this move; I was the only one to
> photograph it, and there are a couple of
> published pictures in R. W. Nimke's
> "GREEN MOUNTAIN RAILROAD" book.

> Now, "how did the D&H get
> involved?", one might ask. It seems
> that a well known excursion operator knew a
> then-aspiring, young official on the Norfolk
> & Western; that young official had good
> contacts on the D&H. Between the young
> official and the excursion operator, a deal
> was made that went something like this: if
> the excursion operator could arrange for
> #1218 to be "loaned" to the
> N&W, then the N&W would forgive some
> debts the excursion operator had incurred in
> rebuilding (at a N&W facility) a
> locomotive leased by the excursion operator
> from Steamtown.

> Could this happen without Steamtown knowing
> about it? Not exactly. Then Steamtown
> executive director, the late Edgar T. Mead,
> Jr., and the excursion operator definitely
> discussed the lease BUT it was never
> approved by Steamtown Foundation Board nor
> put in writing. Unfortunately, Mr. Mead is
> now dead--but he insisted on numerous
> occasions when he was alive that the lease
> was for "15 years". The excursion
> operator? Well, he can now tell his side of
> the story for posterity or remain anonymous.

> My opinion, for what it's worth: #1218 ended
> up being restored to a glorious excursion
> career from a real basket case. That very
> likely never would have happened if it had
> not been for a "questionable
> lease". The anonymous excursion
> operator should get another feather in his
> cap for his part in returning another
> mainline locomotive to steam.

> As to what Steamtown got in return for
> #1218, I'll discuss that in another post.
> It's past my bedtime now!


raymondreter@aol.com

> I seem to remember that the D&H was at
> the time owned by Dereco, Inc., a holding
> company subsidiary of N&W. So the
> D&H's willingness to retrieve the engine
> is not a complete surprise! -- Ray

Could we back up a little more? Just how did Nelson Blount come to aquire the 1218 in the first place?

dmzlalo@aol.com

> Could we back up a little more? Just how did
> Nelson Blount come to aquire the 1218 in the
> first place?

Didn't a Charleston-area guy name of George Greenacre, later one of the first Directors of Tourist Railway Association, INc. (TRAIN) put FNB onto 1218, and then helped facilitate getting some missing parts off one of the other A's and onto 1218?

It seemed like every issue of Trains Mag in the early-mid 60s had a Steam News Photo of Blount's latest acquisition.....

> Could we back up a little more? Just how did
> Nelson Blount come to aquire the 1218 in the
> first place?

According to Eugene Huddleston, in 1959 N&W sold the 1202, 1218 and 1230 to Union Carbide as stationary boilers for use in the Union Carbide plant in South Charleston, WV. By 1964, the engines were being prepaired for scrapping. Huddleston credits Phil Titus and George Greenacre with contacting Nelson Blount who agreed to fund the move of the best of the three engines. The scrapper, Raleigh Junk Company, assisted by replacing missing parts on the 1218 from the other two engines gradis.

According to the web site in the link, two desiel electrics were traded to Steamtown by the N&S to get clear title to the 1218. Nickel Plate GP-9, No. 514, and a former Wabash SW-8 switcher to given to Steamtown in exchange for No. 1218.

Ed

History of the Nickle Plate 514
ff1044@aol.com

> ...reports stating that the Glenn
> Campbell in question (loco owner) had passed
> away, and that the estate had sold or
> transferred the loco to another individual.
> Take with the appropriate large hunks of
> salt, please.
________________________________________________

For the record, Glenn was alive and well on March 28, 2004.

Also for the record, I have no doubt that with her lightweight main rods, Boxpok main drive wheels, and lateral motion on No. 1 driver wheelset, the 643 would be easy on track.

When the 643 was moved from Glenwood to McKees Rocks, she navigated the balloon loop at Glenwood and numerous self-guarded frogs at McKees Rocks without complaint. After watching 643's cab swing out in front of her tender deck nearly to the point of shearing off her water hoses while traversing the Glenwood loop (and after having also seen 765 and 2102 struggle around the west leg of the McKees Rocks wye), I doubt that any other engine bigger than a 2-8-2 (other than a 2-6-6-2 like 1308 or 1309), could do the same without going on the ground.

Not only does the strongest 10-drivered locomotive ever built have a supple suspension, but also many miles of 60 mph operation under her belt in revenue service for original owner B&LE.


bruceman2@earthlink.net

>
> My father-in law worked on this engine at the Union railroad Hall roundhouse around 1978. She went to Station Square in Pittsburgh for a few days. We have been looking for her ever since. Found these postings and understand she is in McKees Rocks. Is it somewhere open to the public? We were at Steamtown on June 19, 2004, but no one had any information. We have some photographs from 1978. I would appreciate any further information you have. Thank you Ray Alexaner________________________________________________

> For the record, Glenn was alive and well on
> March 28, 2004.

> Also for the record, I have no doubt that
> with her lightweight main rods, Boxpok main
> drive wheels, and lateral motion on No. 1
> driver wheelset, the 643 would be easy on
> track.

> When the 643 was moved from Glenwood to
> McKees Rocks, she navigated the balloon loop
> at Glenwood and numerous self-guarded frogs
> at McKees Rocks without complaint. After
> watching 643's cab swing out in front of her
> tender deck nearly to the point of shearing
> off her water hoses while traversing the
> Glenwood loop (and after having also seen
> 765 and 2102 struggle around the west leg of
> the McKees Rocks wye), I doubt that any
> other engine bigger than a 2-8-2 (other than
> a 2-6-6-2 like 1308 or 1309), could do the
> same without going on the ground.

> Not only does the strongest 10-drivered
> locomotive ever built have a supple
> suspension, but also many miles of 60 mph
> operation under her belt in revenue service
> for original owner B&LE.


rca15148@aol.com

The loco is not accessible to the public. It's stored inside a warehouse building in the McKees Rocks Industrial Enterprises facility, an industrial park once the Pressed Steel Car Co. plant.

BTW, I seriously doubt if any of these engine even remotely approached 60 mph. B&LE was a "drag" railroad hauling nearly 100% bulk commodities with little time value. Considering their size and weight, I'd bet 30 mph was the max they ever saw in service. Does anyone have an old B&LE employee TT that would show speed limits for the 600's? Anything over 30 would be likely to leave a trail of kinked rails, regardless of what kind of drivers they had. They were true monsters of the rails.

K3PRR@verizon.net

> BTW, I seriously doubt if any of these engine even remotely approached 60 mph. B&LE was a "drag" railroad hauling nearly 100% bulk commodities with little time value. <

"Clasic Trains" article on B&LE passenger trains via trackage rights to Erie, Pa. mentioned that the connecting road had to get special permission from B&LE to allow the B&LE PASSENGER steam locos to do 70 m.p.h. and avoid delaying the mainline trains!

104577.651@compuserve.com

> "Clasic Trains" article on
> B&LE passenger trains via trackage
> rights to Erie, Pa. mentioned that the
> connecting road had to get special
> permission from B&LE to allow the
> B&LE PASSENGER steam locos to do 70
> m.p.h. and avoid delaying the mainline
> trains!

Unless I'm reading this thread wrong, we're comparing apples to oranges here. B&LE had a handful of Pacifics for passenger service, more suitable for 60 or 70 MPH running that a 2-10-4. no matter how supple its running gear.


edm5970@earthlink.net