Since we're throwing out possibilities, how about SLSF #1352?

Or A&NR #208?? ;)

hi_plain@yahoo.com

> Since we're throwing out possibilities, how
> about SLSF #1352?

> Or A&NR #208?? ;)
Although it may look funny haulin varnish,how about the I1sa 4483 in Hamburg,NY. Since NYC is
my first love maybe the 3001 before 3001. Dare to dream.

dmzlalo@aol.com

Insurance and lawsuits are only part of the problem. Without access to trackage to run on, furhter rehabs are a waste of time and money (IMO, of course).

It doesn't hurt to dream, but why have more hanger queens than we already have?

Does it make more economic sence to have a 4-8-4 that can't run without 200 million in insurance and a fleet of AMTRAK certified passenger cars on mainline rail MAYBE once a year, or a 4-6-2 that can run on 60lb jointed rail pulling plain bearing cars every other weekend?

My bet is on the Pacific, or even an 0-6-0. Just watch the Montana operation with the Soo Line Pacific. This program, IMO, will show that you do not have to run a 4-8-4 to make a buck. It's all in the marketing....

If you want to restore a 4-8-4, the best plan is to own the railroad it's going to operate on or at the very least a lease that allows passenger operations.

We have enough big locomotives out there that can't find work. Smaller is better for the future, save for few stand outs, such as Ohio Central and Grand Canyon.

Big steam is on the way out....and that's the Reality Check.

Smokebox

> Yeah I would like to see a Hudson of some
> type run, or a Pennsy K4, or similar size
> engine. However, these are no big enough to
> handle the size train needed to turn a
> profit for operators.

> Also don't forget the other thing. Today you
> have to remember what its going to look like
> on the point of Amtrak Diesels and coaches
> on your so-called steam special.

> If you go for the larger locomotive, then
> there is a CHANCE-MAYBE that someday it will
> be able to handle a train by itself, when
> and if a private line or insurance carrier
> can be found, that would eliminate the
> Amtrak equation for your excursion train.
> The way things stand now, it doesn't matter
> what size engine you have, they all require
> helpers so to speak.

> Even NS ran into this problem with Royal
> Hudson 2839 back in 1978-80, and finally
> decided to return it, since they had a
> larger replacement(2716, and 611 in the
> wings).

> Even 2816 running on home rails in Canada
> virtually runs every trip with a diesel or
> two. I wish they had gone for a Selkirk or
> one of the 2 4-8-4's, which might have
> rendered the diesels mute!
> Just some thoughts to consider in your
> dreaming!!

> Greg Scholl

> We'll see the K4 in time, and the heavy
> B&M Pacific. A heavy CB&Q Hudson
> would be a good choice. CP Hudsons were just
> too light for that kind of work.
> Although it would be slow, it would make for
> interesting, all day fan trips, how about
> the PRR Decapod? Aside from the LIRR G's and
> the 1361, it's the only other Belpaire
> classic we are ever likely to see roll under
> it's own power again!

Richard:

Just for the record, the folks out in Sioux City, Iowa have been working on Great Northern 4-6-2 #1355 which has a Belpaire boiler. I am not sure how they are coming with it but I believe they do have plans to restore it to operation one day.

Les Beckman (Hoosier Valley Railroad Museum/North Judson, Indiana)

midlandblb@cs.com

This isa hypothetical discussion, based on a possible future situation and not the current excursion climate.

Joshua

How about finishing some of the multitude of locomotives that currently lie dismantled first? Even cosmetic reassembly for display would be an improvement. Personally, I fear some of these projects will still lie in pieces after we're all dead.

ryarger@rypn.org

Thank you Bob for having the garbonzos to say it!!

Smokebox

> How about finishing some of the multitude of
> locomotives that currently lie dismantled
> first? Even cosmetic reassembly for display
> would be an improvement. Personally, I fear
> some of these projects will still lie in
> pieces after we're all dead.

> Does it make more economic sence to have a
> 4-8-4 that can't run without 200 million in
> insurance and a fleet of AMTRAK certified
> passenger cars on mainline rail MAYBE once a
> year, or a 4-6-2 that can run on 60lb
> jointed rail pulling plain bearing cars
> every other weekend?

> My bet is on the Pacific, or even an 0-6-0.
> Just watch the Montana operation with the
> Soo Line Pacific. This program, IMO, will
> show that you do not have to run a 4-8-4 to
> make a buck. It's all in the marketing....

> If you want to restore a 4-8-4, the best
> plan is to own the railroad it's going to
> operate on or at the very least a lease that
> allows passenger operations.

> We have enough big locomotives out there
> that can't find work. Smaller is better for
> the future, save for few stand outs, such as
> Ohio Central and Grand Canyon.

> Big steam is on the way out....and that's
> the Reality Check.

> Smokebox

Big steam has been on its way out since oh about 1957????

My point was that perhaps, and thats a big IF, engines could run on their own again someday without having to be on Amtrak Diesel Trains, then and only then, it is more favorable to have an engine that could likely pull the whole train!!!

Today its a mute point either way though as we all know. I like the smaller engines myself, but not many will operate as they should with 5-10 coach trains will they.

Greg


sales@gregschollvideo.com

> How about finishing some of the multitude of
> locomotives that currently lie dismantled
> first? Even cosmetic reassembly for display
> would be an improvement. Personally, I fear
> some of these projects will still lie in
> pieces after we're all dead.

Bob:

You are 100% correct of course. I think that many of us do not realize just how many of these engines have been started, and now lay unfinished. How about RyPN publishing a list; just of those locomotives that have been started and not finished? I think if they did, and rail enthusiasts could see how many there are, they would not be thinking about new steam projects.

Les Beckman (Hoosier Valley Railroad Museum/North Judson, Indiana)


midlandblb@cs.com

Well said. There is also the locomotives that have run and have been re-retired or just have not run. Ones that comes to mind are Frisco 1522, A&WP 290, and Cotton Belt 819.
-Justin Franz



qcmrs18@yahoo.com

Bob,

I am with you on that one! Note my post about the Copper Range engine newly arrived at the Mid-Continent Museum.

Here in San Francisco we have two or even three o-6-0 switch engines taken apart. And if they ever get put back together by the Golden Gake Museum folks they have no place to run them!

Ted

ted_Miles@nps.gov

> Well said. There is also the locomotives
> that have run and have been re-retired or
> just have not run. Ones that comes to mind
> are Frisco 1522, A&WP 290, and Cotton
> Belt 819.
> -Justin Franz

Let's talk about a win-win situation for a change. Combine this thread (locomotive restorations gone amuck) with the need and desire for a new, young generation to become involved in steam restoration so the skills and knowledge can be passed along to new blood. Here is my thought...identify park locomotives, museums with disassembled locomotives, etc. and match their needs with a work forces (young or old) that has a desire to learn as they reassemble or cosmetically restore some of these sorry creatures. More than likely a municipality or museum will welcome the extra hands to spiff-up or assist in "reconstruction" of old No. 97. Other skills include budgeting, scheduling, working with other volunteers and possibly first- time supervisory experience. The big chore will be matching the workforce with the needs. Thoughts?

Don C.

milw261@sbcglobal.net

> Well said. There is also the locomotives
> that have run and have been re-retired or
> just have not run. Ones that comes to mind
> are Frisco 1522, A&WP 290, and Cotton
> Belt 819.
> -Justin Franz

If I might ask, what is the status of Cotton Belt 819? Could she run if she had a place to run? And where might I get some good historical and current pix of her? A real Ozark beauty.....

wichita_rails@msn.com

Maybe I could continue to dream of a certain S2 locomotive in Havre Mt. that I grew up with. (2584) She is a 4-8-4 and has 80 in drivers. No belpaire firebox and is in good shape.
Maybe some day, BNSF will see her as a flagship along with the Santa Fe 3751.
I can dream too.

jd

mnfrailhist@hotmail.com