> I remember there were glitches at the 1988
> convention, but I cannot recall what
> happened.

LOL... probably easier to explain what DIDN'T go wrong during that convention!

steam fantrip (with NKP 765) that only got half way to its destination (was to go to Harrisburg, only made it to Reading) due to running "light years" behind schedule.

diesel fantrip had a grade crossing accident with a brand new NYS&W diesel getting its nose bashed in by a large dump truck.

Even shortline visits had problems with a fuel oil spill (non RR) cutting short a trip on the Black River & Western RR.

The convention was spread over an entire week with too many trips, activities, etc. planned for each day (the various trip choices competed against each other for patrons).

The staff of the host chapter was spread far too thin and was unable to keep up with various matters that arose. Passenger cars didn't get watered before some of the trips, resulting in failed a/c (during some very hot weather). Rest rooms didn't get cleaned. Almost no photo run-bys were arranged on the trips (some blamed Conrail, but at the time "Big Blue" wasn't totally against such things). NJ Transit welcomed the convention and the trips, but was left with "a bad taste in its mouth" that took years to get over. Those very long (and hot and humid) days (ie "death march excursions") all added up to some rather unhappy riders. There were bright spots, but unfortunately they got overshadowed by the problems.

The shinning star of the whole mess was the Fort Wayne group who did the best they could to keep 765 and its trainset rolling when everything seemed to be falling apart around them--they proved right then and there that they are a class act!

Conventions since then seemed to learn from the mistakes made in 1988 and the host chapters haven't "bit off more then they can chew" which was the main problem with the '88 convention.

Regards,
Jim Robinson

I had stayed away from the convention trips because of previous experiences with the First Class service attempts and promises on Tri-State trips (like DL&W MU parlor club cars).

We can learn from some of their problems. On a ferry move from Hoboken to Bound Brook to prepare for the Harrisburg trip, a convention of fire trucks was assembled near Cranford at Midnight to water the passenger cars. When the ConRail dispatcher asked the Engine crew if they (or the train?) needed water, the reply was that "they" didn't. So, the dispatcher told them to keep on going!
From these posts, I now understand that the Engine crew was from Ft. Wayne, and probably didn't know what Tri-State needed back in the cars! Communication, everybody, PLEASE.

104577.651@compuserve.com

Kudos should also go to the Blue Mountain and Reading. The 765 circle trip and the 765 trip that didn't go to Harrisburg both went to BM&R's Temple Station. The circle trip featured a trip to South Hamburg behind RDG 2102 that did everything it was supposed to do, and the fans were able to detrain and stretch their legs at Temple on the following short-turned HBG trip. You could even get a picture of 765.


Electric City Trolley Museum Association

Yeah, ask me about some favorite steam moments and I will tell you about chasing (yesm the evil c-word) the "Readingsburg" trip and really being impressed by:

1. The R&N's help

2. Watching #765 tackle the ups and downs of the East Penn

3. Spending sunset in Emmaus with the train being serviced underneath a hot air balloon gathering.

What a nice evening that was along my favorite active main line.

I did try to see her ferry move down the Delware Division (Erie main) but she got bad coal as I remember and came down late, after some blue SD's dragged the train down.

Rob



trains@robertjohndavis.com

> Kudos should also go to the Blue Mountain
> and Reading. The 765 circle trip and the 765
> trip that didn't go to Harrisburg both went
> to BM&R's Temple Station. The circle
> trip featured a trip to South Hamburg

I forgot all about the circle trip! Do you remember the infamous Pennsylvania Dutch Lunch? 500 people and 16 seats!

I think the lawsuits are still going on...

When people ask me about the '88 convention, my best description is to simply say, "I spent a year in New Jersey one week."

Over the years we have operated over 300 passenger trips with the 765. These '88 NRHS convention trips were by far the worst organized and poorly planned trips that we ever ran. I knew we were in trouble when we rolled into town, parked the train and we were shown the GARDEN HOSE they were going to use to water the train! To put that in perspective, the usual method of watering the cars in those days was a 2 1/2" fire hose from a pumper or a hydrant to a 3-way splitter. Three inch-and-a-half lines fed from the splitter and were used to water the cars. We could have done it with the garden hose, if there had been a week between trips!

The infamous "Readingburg" trip...ah yes. A 440 mile round trip at a 40 mph maximum speed. Do the math...it's ugly. Then add at least 4 more hours for two service stops. Now it's REAL ugly! I told the convention organizers months earlier that this trip was WAY too long, but it fell on deaf ears.

However, I learned a very valuable lesson in 1988 about letting others handle the steam-related logistics. DON'T DO IT! Since 1988 I handled every detail concerning the operation, care and feeding of the 765.

And we haven't had another fiasco like this since.

Rich Melvin
NKP 765 Engineer

I was on the 765 Readingburg trip that day with my Dad and I recall the Temple-Hamburg trip was behind BM&R 425, not 2102. I have a photo of 425 passing 765 at Temple.

> Kudos should also go to the Blue Mountain
> and Reading. The 765 circle trip and the 765
> trip that didn't go to Harrisburg both went
> to BM&R's Temple Station. The circle
> trip featured a trip to South Hamburg behind
> RDG 2102 that did everything it was supposed
> to do, and the fans were able to detrain and
> stretch their legs at Temple on the
> following short-turned HBG trip. You could
> even get a picture of 765.

> I was on the 765 Readingburg trip that day
> with my Dad and I recall the Temple-Hamburg
> trip was behind BM&R 425, not 2102. I
> have a photo of 425 passing 765 at Temple.

I rode the circle trip. Highlights: 50-60 mph running down the NY shortline into Philly (Priceless look on the kids faces in North Philly on the freight only Conrail portion, they were waiting to throw rocks at a freight train) and up to Reading, 2102 and 425 during the layover on the BM&R. A chance to photograph 765 in Temple and an awesome run over the LV from Allentown to Bound Brook. I stayed in the Dutch door almost the entire trip. The AC had failed on our car and there were almost fistfights during the very long day. I think we arrived back in Bound Brook at 9-10pm. We tried chasing the Readingburg trip, gave up after most of a day waiting. I don't even think they were going 40mph. Any idea why the circle trip ran at track speeds and then 3-4 days later they were going so slow?

Geoff

gcmaits@newhoperailroad.com

> When people ask me about the '88 convention,
> my best description is to simply say,
> "I spent a year in New Jersey one
> week."

> Over the years we have operated over 300
> passenger trips with the 765. These '88 NRHS
> convention trips were by far the worst
> organized and poorly planned trips that we
> ever ran. I knew we were in trouble when we
> rolled into town, parked the train and we
> were shown the GARDEN HOSE they were going
> to use to water the train! To put that in
> perspective, the usual method of watering
> the cars in those days was a 2 1/2"
> fire hose from a pumper or a hydrant to a
> 3-way splitter. Three inch-and-a-half lines
> fed from the splitter and were used to water
> the cars. We could have done it with the
> garden hose, if there had been a week
> between trips!

> The infamous "Readingburg"
> trip...ah yes. A 440 mile round trip at a 40
> mph maximum speed. Do the math...it's ugly.
> Then add at least 4 more hours for two
> service stops. Now it's REAL ugly! I told
> the convention organizers months earlier
> that this trip was WAY too long, but it fell
> on deaf ears.

> However, I learned a very valuable lesson in
> 1988 about letting others handle the
> steam-related logistics. DON'T DO IT! Since
> 1988 I handled every detail concerning the
> operation, care and feeding of the 765.

> And we haven't had another fiasco like this
> since.

> Rich Melvin
> NKP 765 Engineer

I too learned very early on NOT to allow any other organization(s) ESPECIALLY histerical society types, handle ANY critical arrangements regarding ANY of the operating logistics ( and there are many) involved in a mainline excursion but rather to do everything in house and to rehearse well ahead of time ON THE GROUND with every fire dep't., police dep't. etc. EVERY aspect of the upcoming event and whose resposible for what etc. This way come the day of the event there's NO excuses and things run like clock work as they must!!!

The major downside of a complete fiasco such as the '88 NRHS convention is the legacy it leaves behind! When we approached the NJTransit people in '95 with the 614 Pt. Jervis proposal the operating officers fought it tooth and nail(and nearly killed it) as they had promised each other in a blood oath NEVER to allow steam-railfan trips onto their property again!!! Resitance at Conrail was the same. Fortunately we had enough political clout behind us to get them over-ruled and equally fortunately thanks to a great locomotive and a superb volunteer crew of some 145 men&women the program was a huge success and converted those same operating officers into big boosters.

But, what a fight to overcome something that never should have been attempted.

Let's hope the lesson has been well learned!

Ross Rowland

rrowland@weidel.com

I think Jim Boyd coined the phrase.

There are two trips here; the circle trip was set up to have BM&R move the trip riders in its own equipment; 2102 did the honors. This is the trip with the infamous lunch which was arranged by the NHRS convention, not by the BM&R.

The Readingburg trip where Ingles got his cab ride (taxicab!) was set up to pull into Temple for servicing only, then continue on to HBG. I don't recall what was pulling BM&R's own train that day.


Electric City Trolley Museum Association

As bad as the 88 trips were, I'd love a repeat of that route with 765. Bound Brook to Reading. The route is scenic, is all NS now, M&E Lehigh Limited ran that route to Bethlehem last year. There is a wye at Reading and also 2 in NJ in Newark and Port Reading. But that's Conrail Shared Assets. Could NS use any shared assets track to move a steam train even without passengers just to turn it? Or, would Harrisburg to Bethlehem or the reverse work? How would the NS line toward Philly work? They could go to Morrisville, PA without touching SEPTA or CSX. Wye at Norristown is on SEPTA property. Wye at West Falls touches CSX. South of there is CSX. Steam can't touch CSX with a ten foot pole.

Well, not entirely. NS has been allowed to cross CSX trackage at-grade with at least the 765 in the past few years. They have crossed CSX at Attica Jct., OH, on a busy subdivision. I saw CSX hold a stack train for 765 at Attica a couple of years ago when NS ran excursions from Bellevue to Bucyrus. Not the same thing as using jointly held trackage, but it is "touching" CSX rail. 765 has also been allowed to cross CSX on the Wheeling, at Wellington, OH, going to and from the CVSR numerous times.

Should NS decide to include Allentown on the steam schedule, there is still a wye in South Bethlehem on the PBNE. The R&N has used this to turn #2102 in the past. There is enough tail track to turn the locomotive, not the entire train.

Of course, if we are talking Spring of 2015, the south end of the D&H will likely be NS property and that opens up a whole host of turning options in eastern PA, not the least of which is next to a National Park with engine facilities (it would be the D-L/D&H the wye, not the Steamtown turntable if we are talking #765). Anyone for a Harrisburg to Scranton all day adventure? Unlikely due to length, but a man without dreams is a man without vision. ;-)

Rob

If the Park Service would focus its resources on repairing the turntable, which has been down since May (seven months), I believe the turntable would be capable of turning 765 if the railings around the pit were pulled out to accommodate the overhang on either end.

For those not familiar with the Scranton turntable, it is surrounded by railings on the side of the turntable opposite the roundhouse in the area of public access. Each section can be lifted up and out using a forklift to give access to the tracks emanating from the turntable.

Here is a screen grab from the webcam, taken this morning.

WOW, 10 years, 5 months and 8 days, is this a new record for obsolete thread resurrection?

Jeff