I am working on GN X-702 an wood caboose with a steel centersill built by the GN in the 1920's and converted to terminal service at some unknown date (losing the cupola--but retaining all interior lockers/ice cooler/etc.).

Unfortunately, when the car was moved 30 years ago, the smokejack was removed and never replaced. Even in the high desert where it is, enough water has gotten in to make a real mess of things, including one side of the car and a portion of the roof. Two of the carlines are rotted through and require replacement. I am trying to figure out a way to effect these repairs with minimal removal of interior and exterior roof sheathing. Are there any good resources to help in this regard?

Thanks much in advance.

Michael Seitz

Missoula MT

P.S. I tried to post this as a new topic at the new board, but get a "server not found" message when I try to submit. The board would accept responses to existing topics though.

mikefrommontana@juno.com

> I am trying to figure
> out a way to effect these repairs with
> minimal removal of interior and exterior
> roof sheathing. Are there any good resources
> to help in this regard?

Probably not what you want to hear, but in our experience there are few shortcuts to be taken here. More importantly, I expect the damge goes further than you can see without removing some more. My inclination, without seeing it, is to remove the exterior roof sheathing to start with; enough to get a good look at the surrounding area. If it is in good condition and you are careful, most will be able to be re-installed.

Bob Kutella


68trolley@comcast.net

Might check out the ABATRON line of wood restoration epoxies, fillers, etc. They were develped in marine restoration for stabilizing and rebuilding hard to reach areas where the boat would have to be completely disassembled to get to the problem. You may be able to cast / sculpt new areas in place.

dave

irondave@bellsouth.net

Michael,

i am currently repairing my Central Vermont Caboose with a simular afliction. It is nessasary to remove a fair amount of wood to get at the affected area. i them cut out the rot and use it as a pattern to fabricate a sister type patch. use long lap joints and simular woods for the replacement. then glue & screw the replacment wood in place. some time i need to slitly wide mortices with generous chamfers and shorten tenons to get them in place.

As for the abatron stuff, it is expensive and i would not use it for areas that are rotten thru. i would not use it in areas that have more than one third of the parent material rotten.

when you nail the roof and siding back on this reconnects the truss action of the construction.

unless you are after a first class restoration (which would require a complete car dissasembly) these are workable methods. an i still operate my car on ocasion.

AL P.

There are a couple of issues and solutions here, and the chosen route should be influenced by what plans you have for the car after restoration.

If this car is only being restored for static display, then the minimal disassembly / epoxy (abatron or other such as West System) can be used, but only if you treat everything to kill any mold spores or other “bugs” that might be present with a product like Boracare.

If you plan on running the car, you need to take care with epoxies. They can be brittle, and lock up joints that then fail later under use.

If you intend to ever use the car you need to replace much more of the wood. (This doesnÂ’t mean there isnÂ’t a place for epoxy in a working car, just you need to be more careful, the wooden boat guys have been using epoxy on significant parts of their boats for years)

You didnÂ’t mention if any of the effected car lines were composite style (i.e. are a wood and metal sandwich) The composite carlines can take a lot more epoxy repair, as the steel is carrying much of the load. If this is an all wood carline, and there are composite carlines on either side, you could consider splicing in a wood replacement, assuming the composite carlines were carrying most of the load.

Unfortunately full replacement of a carline probably calls for significant removal of roof sheeting and letterboards to get access to the top plate of the wall. Its an ugly job, but it would be “belt and suspenders” historic railroad approach. You may be able to get an idea of how the framing in this area is set up by looking at older Carbuilders Dictionaries, or one of the reprints of Voss Wooden Car Construction available from Orange Empire Railroad Museum.

I would also plan on replacing any exterior sheathing that is rotten or damaged rather than try the epoxy approach. Railroads commonly replaced exterior sheathing and the epoxy systems frequently fail in this application.

Good luck



Carter Brothers Builders
hees@ix.netcom.com

> I am working on GN X-702 an wood caboose with a steel centersill built by the GN in the 1920's. Two of the carlines are rotted through and require replacement. I am trying to figure out a way to effect these repairs with minimal removal of interior and exterior roof sheathing. Are there any good resources to help in this regard?
Michael Seitz

Michael:

When our NRHS chapter restored PRR wooden caboose 980016 back in the 1980s, it had sagging mid-car carlines. As a result, the car had a swayback appearance. The restoration project manager was an engineer who decided to replace them with plate-steel carlines cut to exactly match the shape of the wooden ones. The roof of the car was jacked up to allow the placement of the new supports (I think it needed only two sets), and the car has been sag-free ever since. It was the only departure from in-kind restoration, and was done in a way that replicated the appearance of the wooden components and yet it's obvious that it's new construction.

Contact me offline if you want contact information for the project director--I'm sure he'd be glad to talk with you.

Dan Cupper
Harrisburg, Pa.

cupper@att.net

Thanks for all the responses. The biggest issue involving this car is trying to get a tight roof on it and then (at some future point) doing further work to stabilize an entire side of the car, which I already know will involve complete dissasembly of the car side.

The immediate solution appears to be make new carline ends and lap splice them onto the existing carline. The top side sill is part of the car side with major problems, but we don't want to get into that can of worms just yet.

Perhaps, with enough photos taken and all, it might make a decent RyPN Brief.

Thanks again!

Michael Seitz

Missoula MT

Alder Gulch Shortline
mikefrommontana@juno.com