And probably the ultimate unrestoration poster child, a beautiful deck roof streetcar when acquired, now more a gondola.

So the message is, I suppose, we need to conserve items we get - if we seriously consider ourselves museums of preservation. Organizations and resources fluctuate, and the life of a tarp is short. For that matter, our lives are short compared to these objects of our mania! We need to consider the most permanent preservation avenues possible, at all times. We have done well saving (and sometimes re-saving) our collections, but if the handwriting indicates fewer volunteers coming down the road, we will need to make the transition to permanent buildings and facilities in order to not lose our footing against the forces of nature and elves.

I have to agree with you that a long term view is necessary in the rail preservation movement. Also, that many groups have been guilty of "overcollecting" with regard to the resources available for preservation. Tarps help, but need to be replaced every few years. High quality buildings are expensive, but are essential for the long term survival of the rolling stock.

My estimate is that suitable shelter for a typical length streetcar will cost around $35,000 per car including such items as a concrete floor, wide viewing aisles, sprinklers, adequate lighting, a ventilation system for humidity control, and an alarm system. If the intent is long term storage, rather than display, less aisle space is needed and lighting can be minimal, thus reducing the cost by about 35%. These costs will be higher if substantial site preparation is needed.

The question then becomes; Is this car worth a $35,000 carbarn space? If the answer is no, then don't acquire it in the first place or dispose of it.


artschwartz@sprintmail.com

> And probably the ultimate unrestoration
> poster child, a beautiful deck roof
> streetcar when acquired, now more a gondola.

> So the message is, I suppose, we need to
> conserve items we get - if we seriously
> consider ourselves museums of preservation.
> Organizations and resources fluctuate, and
> the life of a tarp is short. For that
> matter, our lives are short compared to
> these objects of our mania! We need to
> consider the most permanent preservation
> avenues possible, at all times. We have done
> well saving (and sometimes re-saving) our
> collections, but if the handwriting
> indicates fewer volunteers coming down the
> road, we will need to make the transition to
> permanent buildings and facilities in order
> to not lose our footing against the forces
> of nature and elves.

What was it, and where is it?

artschwartz@sprintmail.com

> A CTA 4000

No picture! Besides, as I have said before, does the world really need 37 preserved CTA 4000's. (my count from the Frank Hicks list)


artschwartz@sprintmail.com

> What was it, and where is it?

St. Louis Public Service #1001, 1907. I'm a little reluctant to point out where it is, since the MOT people are doing a lot of good work, and nearly everything else in the collection is stored inside and/or being worked on. Most groups have a few skeletons in the closet. Or back in the weeds, as the case may be.

And Olin, you should be crediting the photographer for most of these....

> First, a Philly Hog Island car. <

Check ECTMA.org for more information about this car (Red Arrow 26), which was originally as described above.

The photo was taken at S.E.P.T.A.'S Germantown carbarn.


104577.651@compuserve.com

crediting the
> photographer for most of these....

Which would be Frank Hicks, of course. I guess I should have spent more time and credit everyone, developed my thoughts further, and submitted it as an editorial to this website. Too few of us do that sort of thing.
Frank and Jeff Hakner have done quite a service for the preservation community with their database of preserved traction equipment. I used this for finding all the photos, except for the NStC&T 130, which I had happened upon the other day and it got me thinking. I hope that others might use the formula by Frank and Jeff for making online lists of other forms of equipment out there.

Roster of Preserved North American Electric Railwa

Thanks for the plug. I, in turn, should mention that the first photo (of the Philly "Hog Island" car) is actually a John P. Almeida photo from the Philadelphia Chapter NRHS "Railfan Picture of the Week" section of 23 November 2003.

Frank Hicks

Preserved North American Electric Railway Cars
F-Hicks@wiu.edu

> Frank and Jeff Hakner have done quite a
> service for the preservation community with
> their database of preserved traction
> equipment.

You're welcome. Glad it gets used. And to be
perfectly modest, Frank does 99% of the work.


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