"I`m as much a rail fan as anyone else. I don`t want to see it gone. But I do want to see it gone out of my backyard and out of the residential area of Ridgeley," said Dixon. "We don`t want them to get rid of the steam engine. We want them to get rid of the smoke and the dirt," said Jim Nestor, a fellow Ridgeley resident.

This is just another classic case of stupid. How do you operate a steam locomotive without creating a lot of smoke? It canÂ’t be done. And if anyone thinks they can make it burn any cleaner their wrong. That's fact that can't be disputed.

Because of all the lawsuits going on for everything and anything people feel they can complain about anything that bothers them and get all kinds of attention and possibly a lawsuit. This feeling exists in the minds of the public because that is what many of us have been duped to think.

Think I am wrong? Take a look at the media. We are always hearing of stupid lawsuits like the one in Calf. A young mother tripped over her own child and it was the storeÂ’s fault because the carpet in the store made her child fall over. She did not see her child on the floor so she tripped over the child and also fell. They found nothing wrong with the carpet. It was found that the child kept running around and playing among the displays of cloths in the department and like all small children he fell. But she sued anyway and won. People see this happen and some but not all of us are conditioned to do the same of axecpt this as real life or normal. And why not it happens all the time? It is not normal today?

The EPA is getting very petty and so are the people concerned about a steam engine. When is someone with power going to stand up and say these kinds of actions against places like this are JUST PLAIN WRONG.

You watch, soon someone on the rail trail next to the railroad will complain and maybe sue because of the noise, smoke, possible danger, vibration, look, or any number of reasons they can come up with to shut the railroad down. I donÂ’t understand what happened? The previous generations grew up with steam and the smokestack industries of long ago and they had no complaints. Maybe because those smokestack industries and steam engines meant jobs, prosperity, and growth. A way of life.

We have lost sight of what made this country great and what made the freedoms we have so important. This is what makes keeping history alive, like a steam railroad or Civil War reenactment very hard to do. It seems to me that some folks donÂ’t look at a steam engines with wonder and awe. Because they were drilled so much in school starting at an early age (I know I was a teacher) into seeing anything that makes smoke or drips some kind of water as evil and killing our very, very fragile planet. I remember in college even students talking about Nuclear Power Plants as making lots of white smoke. They did not realize thatÂ’s steam coming out of those huge cooling towers. I am not making this up folks.

With these kinds of attitudes among so many people, and with the lawyerÂ’s supporting them we will continue to see many more attacks on our historic steam railroads. Sad but true.

Andrew

A lot of it has to do with people in general today,I think they are getting less able to use the brains God gave them. I was running our narrow gauge Shay in eastern PA and we were sitting at the station waiting to finish loading passengers. You get alot of questions from folks on the ground, some intelligent, some inquiring about what they dont know, etc. But this one guy comes up and yells into the cab "Is this real?" How do you answer a qusetion like that with out flat out being a wise a$$. People don't think about a lot of things anymore. I had a guy from work bring his kids to our farm to see where corn comes from, they thought it came in plastic packages from the grocery store!! I hope some intelligent minds gat involved in this WMSR case before it gets out of hand. Maybe we need to educate the public a bit more in the realities of our operations, but as the last fellow said, the lawyers run the country as they see fit.

captbuck@comcast.net

I think it is unfair to say they don't use their brains; they are used to a sterile world of Walmart, computers, and shiny cars; where things they see like "Titanic" in the movie of the same name is nothing more than a prop, a mirage, a computer generated fantasy.

Few people have seen a steam locomotive in action, much less understand how they work. And when they are confronted with something like a geared steam locomotive which doesn't have big whitewall wheels on it and driving rods; they are even more confused. Especially when they then see the little CP Huntington train in their local park or zoo.

Steam is rapidly becoming what sailing ships are today. And yes, most kids growing up now think milk comes from a factory in cartons, along with corn and everything else on a farm. Because that is all they have ever seen; not only do they not know anyone who owns a farm, they have never been on one.

And don't count on today's regular television fare of reality TV and music videos to educate them. And channels like the History Channel and Discovery Channel protray it like a thing of the past, as dead a concept as the tall ship.

It is that lack of disconnect that will be the death kneal of the steam, railroad, and other heavy machinery preservation movement unless we talk a more proactive stance in educating the public. We are dealing less and less with kids and even parents who fathers ran or remember steam engines; all they know is the Space Shuttle and video games.

Below is a photograph of the Solvay Coke Plant compressor house, taken by Brad Smith this past weekend. We had a lot against us that caused us to fail; but one of the biggest was simply put, the town of Milwaukee couldn't care less whether or not it was torn down. Sure, us steam fans raised a storm, but without money and support from the city, county, and state level as well as donors, we were doomed from the start.

Will this be your railroad museum or operation one, two, five, or ten years from now? That is a very real possibility if you fail to connect with your patrons and your community. We will all pass on, the generations after us won't understand and won't care what it was all about; and before you know it, it will be all be gone.

I don't know a thing about what is going on with the WM; but one question I have to ask is does the railroad do anything for community besides generate a lot of drive-thru traffic and smoke? If not, the answer may not be to treat them all as tree-huggers and and idiots; it may be time to hand out discount passes to the neighboring communities or have an open house where they find out for themselves there is a purpose behind all that smoke.

And will I continue to say that we need more mixed-development projects where museums are part of a retail or comdo mix, not hiding in a station far removed from the general public. We failed in Milwaukee, but I hope the Chestnut Hill group succeeds in doing just that, along with some of the inner city station projects. As long as we remain hidden out of the public view, we will continue to become something of a freak show unknown to most of the general public.

-James Hefner
Hebrews 10:20a

Surviving World Steam Project
http://www.survivingworldsteam.com

> A lot of it has to do with people in
> general today,I think they are getting less
> able to use the brains God gave them. I was
> running our narrow gauge Shay in eastern PA
> and we were sitting at the station waiting
> to finish loading passengers. You get alot
> of questions from folks on the ground, some
> intelligent, some inquiring about what they
> dont know, etc. But this one guy comes up
> and yells into the cab "Is this
> real?" How do you answer a qusetion
> like that with out flat out being a wise
> a$$. People don't think about a lot of
> things anymore. I had a guy from work bring
> his kids to our farm to see where corn comes
> from, they thought it came in plastic
> packages from the grocery store!! I hope
> some intelligent minds gat involved in this
> WMSR case before it gets out of hand. Maybe
> we need to educate the public a bit more in
> the realities of our operations, but as the
> last fellow said, the lawyers run the
> country as they see fit.


Surviving World Steam Project

james@survivingworldsteam.com

Having read several articles on this subject it is plain to see that regardless of what these people say they want the railroad gone. The trail people would love that too. That would make the problem of trains in the tunnel disappear. These nimbys are the same as any others and will not stop until they either move or get what they want.

John Bohon

jhbohon@yahoo.com

Ridgeley is on a finger of land that sticks right into the center of Cumberland. As close as it is, there is not much tangible benefit realized by the folks on the West Virginia side of the river. The ticket sales benefit the railroad and the employees that do work in the Mountain State are on the State of Maryland payroll.

And what they see is plumes of coal smoke billowing skyward and then settling on their houses, cars, etc. It takes a long time to fire the boiler and get up to steam, and all the while it is sitting there spewing (in their eyes and minds) pollution. When the wind is right, you can't sit on your porch or anywhere outside.

If you look back at the relationship between the two communities in regards to the railroad, you will find more acrimony. Once upon a time, the Allegany County (Maryland) Sheriff came into Ridgeley to "enforce" something or other and was promptly taken into custody by his Mineral County (West Virginia) counterpart. Yes, it happened.

Now we are in that season where citizens aspire to elected offices and we see the boil festering. It would not be too difficult for me to conjure up an image of a mayor, councilman, commissioner, or state representative parading before the electorate with the scalp of the Western Maryland Scenic Railroad dangling from his/her belt while he/she gloats about bags full of bounty from the $10,000 per day fines.



gerald_altizer@atlanticbb.net

Amen to all above. Ever since common sense was replaced by litigation we are seeing all of our hobbies and entertainments die, being replaced by plastic facsimilies. I love steam, and WM is one of the operations I haven't yet visited. I hope I can get to do it before it's gone.

Fitz's Steam Railfan page
fitzrr@pioneer.net

Tell me about it, we have had to cut back our steam running back just to weekends, we tried running all week and got a bunch of crap from the locals that we cut our steam schedule way back, that really sucks. People forget that the railroad was there is 1890, where were they?

> Amen to all above. Ever since common sense
> was replaced by litigation we are seeing all
> of our hobbies and entertainments die, being
> replaced by plastic facsimilies. I love
> steam, and WM is one of the operations I
> haven't yet visited. I hope I can get to do
> it before it's gone.


midh91@hotmail.com

> Ridgeley is on a finger of land that sticks
> right into the center of Cumberland. As
> close as it is, there is not much tangible
> benefit realized by the folks on the West
> Virginia side of the river. The ticket sales
> benefit the railroad and the employees that
> do work in the Mountain State are on the
> State of Maryland payroll.

So what you have here, in effect, is a battle between two states. WV gets all the smoke, and MD gets all the tourist dollars. Is there any way to move the servicing area into MD?

I remember from the Pentrex tape that the WMSR Alco diesels were kept a little west of the station. Could 734 be fired up there? And use a diesel to wye the engine at the end of the day?

20 years ago we (slowly) fired up New Hope and Ivyland 9 right in the middle of town, with no complaints at all. But than again, that was 20 years ago, and things have changed. But to go to oil firing, or suspend steam operations, in the heart of coal country, would be a crime


edm5970@earthlink.net

> Is there any way to move the servicing area
> into MD?

A few years back, there was a plan to swap some property with CSX on the Maryland side. When the Scenic vacated the West Virginia property it was to be razed...tracks pulled, buildings demolished, etc.
What the Scenic would have got is a piece of property big enough for an engine shop and their turntable. The problem was that the property was in the back yard of a senior citizen residence.
It also was during the tenure of a previous general manager that, along with his plan, was dismissed.

If the Scenic shops were located in an area not in close proximity of residential property, we would not be having this conversation. But in today's litigious environment where citizens are cited for burning their autumn leaves, actions like this will become more and more frequent.


gerald_altizer@atlanticbb.net

> This is just another classic case of stupid.
> How do you operate a steam locomotive
> without creating a lot of smoke? It canÂ’t be
> done. And if anyone thinks they can make it
> burn any cleaner their wrong. That's fact
> that can't be disputed.

I would have to argue this logic. Granted, you will not likely be able to operate steam without some smoke, but if you are running a "belcher", why don't you see what can be done to clean it up? Can the railway purchase a better grade fuel? Can the locomotive be made to operate more clean? Can it be converted to oil? Are there grants availible? Could a tech school help out?

Your message, as I understand it, isn't that they want the steam train gone....they just want it to "clean up". Sometimes this isn't to much of a request.

How have the Brits handled this? The groups "across the pond" seem to have gone thru many such issues (with coal burners to boot).

Smokebox

It is unfortunate in this day and age that history is being more and more viewed as a nuissance or an unnecessary evil better done away with and replaced with the lattest and greatest of whatever. Furthermore, steam engines by their very nature strike on the negative side of some very hot current issues, the enviroment, noise, etc. I do believe that all of us do have the responsibility to not be blatenly negligent in our operations, which I think most of us are. My message to all folks out there raising their voice against whatever issue strikes their heart, which is their right to do in our great country, don't be surprised when some group forms and raises their voices against something that you hold dear to your heart. This can work both ways and to often we concentrate on what is just good for us at that moment and forget it can come back to haunt us.



Strasburg Rail Road
asholley@hotmail.com

Might I suggest that someone show the WV authorities video of their own Cass Scenic Railway operation? Before they (WV authorities) complain about the WMSR operations they may want to look at their own operation! I've been to Cass several times and can remember quite a bit of smoke while they were getting their steam up. -- Ray

> "I`m as much a rail fan as anyone else.
> I don`t want to see it gone. But I do want
> to see it gone out of my backyard and out of
> the residential area of Ridgeley," said
> Dixon. "We don`t want them to get rid
> of the steam engine. We want them to get rid
> of the smoke and the dirt," said Jim
> Nestor, a fellow Ridgeley resident.

> This is just another classic case of stupid.
> How do you operate a steam locomotive
> without creating a lot of smoke? It canÂ’t be
> done. And if anyone thinks they can make it
> burn any cleaner their wrong. That's fact
> that can't be disputed.

> Because of all the lawsuits going on for
> everything and anything people feel they can
> complain about anything that bothers them
> and get all kinds of attention and possibly
> a lawsuit. This feeling exists in the minds
> of the public because that is what many of
> us have been duped to think.

> Think I am wrong? Take a look at the media.
> We are always hearing of stupid lawsuits
> like the one in Calf. A young mother tripped
> over her own child and it was the storeÂ’s
> fault because the carpet in the store made
> her child fall over. She did not see her
> child on the floor so she tripped over the
> child and also fell. They found nothing
> wrong with the carpet. It was found that the
> child kept running around and playing among
> the displays of cloths in the department and
> like all small children he fell. But she
> sued anyway and won. People see this happen
> and some but not all of us are conditioned
> to do the same of axecpt this as real life
> or normal. And why not it happens all the
> time? It is not normal today?

> The EPA is getting very petty and so are the
> people concerned about a steam engine. When
> is someone with power going to stand up and
> say these kinds of actions against places
> like this are JUST PLAIN WRONG.

> You watch, soon someone on the rail trail
> next to the railroad will complain and maybe
> sue because of the noise, smoke, possible
> danger, vibration, look, or any number of
> reasons they can come up with to shut the
> railroad down. I donÂ’t understand what
> happened? The previous generations grew up
> with steam and the smokestack industries of
> long ago and they had no complaints. Maybe
> because those smokestack industries and
> steam engines meant jobs, prosperity, and
> growth. A way of life.

> We have lost sight of what made this country
> great and what made the freedoms we have so
> important. This is what makes keeping
> history alive, like a steam railroad or
> Civil War reenactment very hard to do. It
> seems to me that some folks donÂ’t look at a
> steam engines with wonder and awe. Because
> they were drilled so much in school starting
> at an early age (I know I was a teacher)
> into seeing anything that makes smoke or
> drips some kind of water as evil and killing
> our very, very fragile planet. I remember in
> college even students talking about Nuclear
> Power Plants as making lots of white smoke.
> They did not realize thatÂ’s steam coming out
> of those huge cooling towers. I am not
> making this up folks.

> With these kinds of attitudes among so many
> people, and with the lawyerÂ’s supporting
> them we will continue to see many more
> attacks on our historic steam railroads. Sad
> but true.

> Andrew


raymondreter@aol.com

Didn't the Norfolk and Western or some other railroad had a device for "consuming" the smoke while the engine is standing still? Can a similiar setup be used at the WMSRR?

-James Hefner
Hebrews 10:20a

Surviving World Steam Project
james@survivingworldsteam.com

> Might I suggest that someone show the WV
> authorities video of their own Cass Scenic
> Railway operation? Before they (WV
> authorities) complain about the WMSR
> operations they may want to look at their
> own operation! I've been to Cass several
> times and can remember quite a bit of smoke
> while they were getting their steam up. --
> Ray

I think Cass is a bit more "remote" as far as neighbors go-- and those folks near Cass understand the cause and effect of steam-train-related tourism dollars. No steam train, no dollars in Cass. The area near the WMSR Ridgley shop is certainly not a fancy neighborhood, but the residents derive no immediate economic benefit from the railroad's proximity.

The WMSR people that I know are concerned with being good neighbors, and I am sure they are working on solving this. That said, there are some people who simply want the railroad gone, and will not stop until it is.

> Didn't the Norfolk and Western or some other
> railroad had a device for
> "consuming" the smoke while the
> engine is standing still? Can a similiar
> setup be used at the WMSRR?

> -James Hefner
> Hebrews 10:20a

I think the Durango & Silverton has installed "smoke scrubbers" on thier engine house.

Smokebox