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My boss has a very direct and succinct explanation as to why passengers are not allowed to run locomotives on the Strasburg Rail Road. He says, “Think nuclear submarine vs Japanese fishing boat.” These days, the down side of having an accident of any sort while someone who is not a qualified employee is at the controls is way too steep.


Strasburg Rail Road Mechanical Department
kelly@strasburgrailroad.com

Heh heh, would you want an unlicensed person performing major surgery on you!



bwilson@acd.net

> Heh heh, would you want an unlicensed person
> performing major surgery on you!

Who said anything about running a train without a licensed employee, not me.

I see plenty of people on this board responding saying they allow folks to take part in the operation of their REGULAR trains. I think what I am proposing is far tamer! I think in all cases a Licensed Engineer is always present as it should be. I don't get your point!
Greg

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sales@gregschollvideo.com

> My boss has a very direct and succinct
> explanation as to why passengers are not
> allowed to run locomotives on the Strasburg
> Rail Road. He says, “Think nuclear submarine
> vs Japanese fishing boat.” These days, the
> down side of having an accident of any sort
> while someone who is not a qualified
> employee is at the controls is way too
> steep.

While most will assume legal liability would be the bigger concern, there's also the FRA side to be considered. In most cases, it's downright illegal to let anyone who is not a qualified employee operate a locomotive. Since CFR Part 240 is pretty clear about who is and isn't permitted to operate locomotives, all it will take is one incident for the feds to come in and end the practice for good.

I know some of the programs consider the participants to be "student" engineers, yet most seem not to do backup documentation to protect themselves in the event an FRA reportable incident takes place.

For those who aren't familiar with them ... look through Part 240 sometime. Reviews of drivers abstracts, medical and eyesight screening, rules examinations, past safety records, and documentation as to the testing used to determine the competency of a candidate are all specifically mentioned as being required in the CFR. There is simply too much potential liability built into a student engineer's certification process to make a one day program worth the potential risk. Yet, a large number of operations are willing to let anyone manipulate the controls as long as they've got the cash.

If I were in the operators' of SRC shoes, I'd take exactly the same stance. It's not worth risking your operation for a few quick bucks. Not having a program is much easier to deal with, than facing the questions from lawyers and FRA inspectors when they start asking exactly how it is you determined the person could be trusted at the controls of a locomotive.


Fiv4HghStk@aol.com

Right on Greg. It's no different than a regular RR training new engineers, They aren't fuuly trained & licensed yet either........Wooly

> Who said anything about running a train
> without a licensed employee, not me.

> I see plenty of people on this board
> responding saying they allow folks to take
> part in the operation of their REGULAR
> trains. I think what I am proposing is far
> tamer! I think in all cases a Licensed
> Engineer is always present as it should be.
> I don't get your point!
> Greg


wooly421@charter.net

> Right on Greg. It's no different than a
> regular RR training new engineers, They
> aren't fuuly trained & licensed yet
> either........Wooly

Wooly, it's VERY different. Student engineers on the Class 1's are issued special temporary licenses. The only difference between a "full blown" license, and that of a student, is that a student's card carries a restriction that they may only operate under the supervision of a fully licensed engineer. In fact, a student has to meet certain criteria, and pass written examinations, before they can even receive that piece of paper saying they can operate the train.

Whether a locomotive has cars behind it is irrelevant, because nearly every rulebook states that a train doesn't have to include cars to be considered as such. The only exception to needing a license, is for hostlers ... they have a variant of a license. In addition, the areas they can operate in are strictly defined and must be desingated as a locmotive terminal.

Fiv4HghStk@aol.com

It's worth mentioning that the necessity of first possessing some sort of license (either full, or a student card) isn't applicable to just the Class 1's. Without a student license, by law you cannot operate a locomotive on a RR coming under FRA jurisdiction. While the RR's are left to their own devices to administer to their certification programs, they must designate a proper supervisor who oversees the program, and their certification process can be reviewed by the FRA to determine whether it is adequate or not.

Folks should also understand that a FRA reportable incident isn't relegated to major calamities. IIRC, any injury that results in lost time, or requires the dispensation of a medication for treatment, is considered FRA reportable.

From the way I understand it, even a cut that requires stitches to close, could raise a red flag as far as the FRA in concerned.

Fiv4HghStk@aol.com

This is why I took up golf again after not playing for some 12 years! However, now that there are so many more golfers, I have to tee off on a weekday at 7 am, otherwise it gets crowded.

As for the engineer program, it's always something. Good thing I am not panting to do it, but If I did it would be with a train, not a light engine. Guess I'll settle for those memories of cab rides in doubleheaded 4-8-4's in South Africa, 72 mph Pacific's in Germany, and that last fairway metal I put on the green!!! :)

Greg Scholl


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sales@gregschollvideo.com

> This is why I took up golf again after not
> playing for some 12 years! However, now that
> there are so many more golfers, I have to
> tee off on a weekday at 7 am, otherwise it
> gets crowded.

I hear ya there, Greg. :-)

I only wanted to point out to others that an engineer "experience" isn't "just like" a student engineer situation. Student engineers, for all intents and purposes, have gone through the entire certification and regulatory process EXCEPT for the hands-on train handling portion. That part needs to be done before they can be issued their student license and legally get behind the throttle of a locomotive. It's much different than getting a "quickie" review on the absolute basics and being turned loose on an available engine.

An operator should consider several factors before they simply jump into offering such a venture. If they don't come under FRA jurisdiction, they have far more leeway. If they're a common carrier (such as SRC), or fall under the jurisdictional scope of the FRA, things get far more complicated and can be downright ugly if an incident takes place.

I'm actually surprised the FRA hasn't gotten more into watching the Engineer-For-A-Day programs than they have...

Fiv4HghStk@aol.com

I was thinking we should leave the worms in the can un-opened for now!
Greg

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sales@gregschollvideo.com

> Even experienced diesel engineers are often taken aback in attempting to deal with the lags associated with a rear end throttle, let alone an off the street rookie.

Definitely not for amateurs!

superheater62@yahoo.com

If you notice most of the lines that offer these are narrow gauge (Maine Narrow Gauge, and I think Sumpter Valley, Roaring Camp). In addition, the FRA controls to my knowledge any RR that crosses over a public road.

Yes its pretty scary to let amateurs behind steam locomotives. *However*, many "engineer for a day" programs that I've seen have hours of training early on the day before anyone gets near any locomotive.

As for engineer for a day on a diesel what's the purpose and thrill in that? Go work for the trucking company for a day and that's about the thrill you'll get by driving a diseasel...don't bother spending $150 on it. Eat smoke!

As for Strasburg, leave the poor guys alone. They get more foamers than an entire state of railroads put together. You'll hear foamer horror stories from over there. The Moedingers have run that railroad since the late 50s, they must be doing something right to be on the top. Don't question their authority! Plus, the SRC line has grade crossings and is adjacent at Paradise to the AMTK right of way. This is probably the most un-ideal place for a guest engineer.

Occasionally you hear of hoggers letting fellow railfolk (not foamers) run the lokie on the yard tracks or something, but that's all that they can do without getting in trouble. They're just doing their job.

Foamer behind the throttle...uh-oh!

I agree with you, that it would never work, but kindly leave the derogatory remarks to yourself!
We true railroaders would be nowhere without the railfans!

Paul

pcalpin31@yahoo.com

It has been six years since the last post in this thread, and I think a follow up on the success of the engineer programs is in order. I would like to ask those who have experience with engineer for an hour programs a few questions:

1) Are the programs still popular or was this just a passing fad?

2) Have there been any incidents where a student engineer has been injured, caused an injury, derailed and/or damaged equipment?

3) Has an insurance claim been paid regarding an incident linked to an engineer program?

4) Has the FRA made any statements or issued any guidance regarding engineer programs?

5) Overall, when taking into account all aspects, are engineer programs worth it?