Hi, Folks;

I was talking with a friend about the Cooperstown & Charlotte Valley RR operation, for which he volunteers, the other day. While he tells me that sometimes the ridership is good, and other times it is not so great, I get the feeling that the railroad is always "struggling." Without lingering on the negative, I was hoping to spur on conversation here about what we like or dislike about it, and any factors of the RR they can't change, but might work around.

My own opinion, from a special guest visit made in 2000, is that it is much like many other tourist railroads, with some natural beauty, history worth commenting on, and new features along the line and a decent, but not fast speed. The part I found sad is that in that region, there are many unused farms, just getting reclaimed by nature. Another obstacle is what is experienced by much of that region, known as being "Centrally Isolated". This means that the Leatherstocking area of NY state is close in miles to population, but a bear to drive to, because of the mountains and lakes preventing easy, direct car trips. You can't easily move a railroad, but can this perception be changed.

Thanks for reading. I hope you have the chance to ride it.

Well Tim, maybe I'm biased because I am a member and volunteered with the Leatherstocking Railway Historical Society/Cooperstown & Charlotte Valley Railway just about every Saturday in college and graduate school, but I am pleased with the way things have progressed. Sure, progress is slow, money is tight, but that is not uncommon to the tourist railway/historical society field. I really enjoyed volunteering (in many many positions), and looked forward to it. I've been at a loss for the past year after leaving the area and I am looking forward to finding an opportunity in the Philly area.

I will probably add more comment in the future.

Joshua

I think what they are experiencing on the C&CV can be said for any tourist railroad, save for lets say Strasburg, DSNGRR or WP&Y. My personal experience working on two different tourist operations, Wilmington & Western and New Hope & Ivyland, I know exactly what you are talking about. Everything fluctuates, here are my examples:

The W&W -- Themed trips like the Childrens Days, Civil War, Wild West Days, Fall Foliage or Halloween regularly approached 1100 people or better on 2 or 3 trips with 6 coaches, sometimes adding a 4th train just to handle the crowds. There were days down there that there wasn't any theme for the day, just regular trips to the pinic grove, that we carried as many as 900 people on 3 trips. Then of course you had the days where the caboose parties paid for the days operation as there were hardly any walk ups -- usually on overly hot or rainy days.

The scenery in my opinion can't be beat for a small valley of land within a rapidly growing, high priced metro area not far from Philly....very dense greenery and more or less "untouched." Their speed was never break neck and I recall a time in the 90's, where every half mile or so there was a speed restriction of some sorts when they were working on a major upgrading of the line. Access to the railroad is quite simple and direct, but if you are not looking close enough, you can pass right by the entrance.

Same can be said for the NH&I. There were days that we had great numbers. Seeing as how the train sits in town for 10 minutes or less in between trips, the crowds would still roll in. Then there were the days of cancelling trips (which I believe they finally did away with) especially if it was raining..HA! forget it, nobody would be in town then and if they were the irony was they came to ride the train as there was nothing else to do.

Their scenery on the North end is good, but rapidly changing with the housing boom in Bucks county. The South end is the true gem of the line and they are finally tapping into this. Access is fairly easy but out of the way in some sense. They are smack in the middle of a tourist mecca, but the railroad is not the draw, in fact sometimes it's the last thing to do on the list, if you know what I mean. For some New Hope, Pa visitors, it's a "cutsie thing" they think the town runs for their visual entertainment and is not a business. Some think it just circles the town itself and of course it's free, right? (These opinions are based on actual questions posed to me while working there in various positions)

Any operation that is not in a major location like Lancaster County or the high mountains of Colorado or that have a boarding location next to 2 or 3 cruise ships, is going to be struggling. Todays 'nuclear family' revolves around trends....what is "in", how long will it take to get there, what else is there to do,how much will it cost, what is the weather (God forbid if it rains!!!), what time will we be home? There is little if any concern for relaxation, which is what they are supposedly getting out to do in the first place.

The key to the survival of any of these operation is sincere concern by the operators -- mangement, board of directors, employees --paid or unpaid, and the communities they operate in to keep them alive, all of which the C&CV have.

C&CV is new to the game, their equipment and operations are quite nice. I think, as with anything over time, they will suceed even more than they have already. They have good community support and they own their right of way which is always a good thing. (The C&CV cars came from an operation in PA that did very well, but didn't own their trackage and was forced to cease operations when ownership of the RR changed.) I say to the C&CV keep up and continue what you are doing. Keep working on visual improvments to the grounds. Families like neat, clean, well landscaped areas for their entertainment not the gritty 1950's railroad look. (sorry railfans)

Aplogies for being long winded. -junior

The last time I was to Cooperstown was about 10 years ago. (Delaware Otsego used to hold their annual meeting on a Saturday in June - followed by a picnic lunch at their mansion in town). At the time, you could buy a combination ticket to visit the Hall of Fame, the Farmers Museum, and James Fenimore Cooper's home. Could they get added to this combo ticket? My impression is that there are a fair number of visitors that stay at least one night, so a train trip can be part of a weekend's activities. I would also think you should tap into the local Chamber of Commerce or Tourism Board and get some demographics of who is coming to town. Based on conversations I've had at the Hall of Fame it appears that a fair number of overnight visitors come from Boston or New York with a decent number from Philadelphia, Buffalo and Toronto. Perhaps flyers at rest areas on highways coming from these areas (like the NYS Thruway or 17) would be a good, inexpensive idea.

Is there a chance to team up with the Hall of Fame? Perhaps a shuttle service on the Hall of Fame Game day would get a lot of attention, even if run at a loss. I know that the Hall of Fame does a lot of rotating exhibits. Perhaps a joint effort to tell the story of baseball teams travelling by train could be a hit.

In short, I think the key is to become a valued addition to the tourist attractions already found in the Copperstown area.

Thank you for your input, and for your quick replies. I hope the converstion keeps going past this post.

I needed a "reality check" on this particular road, because I figured they were in the same boat as the rest of us, but wasn't quite sure, based on this friend's comments. Perhaps a lot of what we measure success by is based on how we see it. A successful operation could be measured in how safe the operation is, or sheer numbers of riders, or the elusive "historically accurate." In a field such as this, making money is usually a plus, because so few of us can do that.
Tim O'M