I understand that there are many professionals on this board that represent both museums and tourist railroads. On this a very busy 3 day weekend that ends the summer season, did any of you introduce a Labor Day message into any narration at your facility?

The following is a Labor Day message from the Teamsters web site:

“The Significance of Labor Dayâ€

Of course nearly all us railroaders spent our Labor Day like we do all other holidays except Christmas and New Years - working. The double time and a half helps ease the pain, however.l

double time and a half??? Even my union can't pull that off!
Geez, maybe I'm in the wrong business...

I know that certain unions do a good job of preserving their own history whether by recording an ongoing oral record, or by archival film and/or video. Have any of the railroad/transporation unions created such records? Can they be accessed by your membership?

It's how you look at it - straight time for the day + time and 1/2 for the work.

What's really fun is when Christmas is on a Sunday and Monday is the official holiday. Some outfits want people to work 12-25 as a regular day because the holiday is 12-26.

Bob,

Yes, If I work the hoiday its double time and a half. But, I was hoping to hear from the folks that run these institutions. And would still very much like to hear form these folks on the above.

Jimmy B

Jimmy,

While labor history is significan and important, I believe it is unfair and even smacks of "political correctness" to judge railroad museums by their approch to labor history.

These are railroad museums not labor museums. Many, maybe even most railroad museums have mission statements defining what they do. Many include a social history component, and labor is clearly a significant part of that story, but the primary mission of most railroad museums is railroads and their equipment.

Randy Hees

One thing that you have to remember is that railfans are unique in placing a higher priority on the story of objects over the story of how people used and interacted with objects. All of the knowledge that we have about railroads and their equipment is meaningless unless it is placed in the larger context of the people it served and the people it worked for. Many museum visitors that I meet are there because they want to gain a better understanding of what life was like for their ancestors - whether they lived along a street car line, were a section hand, or what have you. It is important to remember that the point of interpretive exhibits is to aide in understanding the significance of something. Interpretive exhibits that talk about the mechanical characteristics of a thing - without talking about how the thing was used by people and what it was like to work on and around do not help in understanding the importance the thing had to the people who used it and worked around it.

Labor unions are a key part of how understanding railroad workers sought to improve their working conditions, the challenges facing railroad executives, and the reasons why railroads operated the way they did. Whether or not you like unions today, they are a major part of the story of railroads and to leave them out is doing a major dis-service to museum visitors.

This is a "heads up" to the moderators. I have run across "Jimmy B" on several other rail forums. If you do not agree with his pro-union issues, a vicious diatribe will follow. I would recommend closing the thread.

I've been watching the thread closely. "Jimmy B's" position is very clear but he hasn't strayed across the bounds of the INTERCHANGE's rules to require intervention. He has presented a position that may or may not be agreed with in a rational manner. As long as all postings remain civil, dissent and discussion are welcome within the scope of the RYPN INTERCHANGE scope of discussion, i.e. railroad preservation. As long as the discussion continues to discuss the role of unions in a historical perspective of the railroad industry, and how that should/maybe presented by a museum, it is an appropriate topic of discussion. But unions today, particularly outside the railroad industry, or union involvement in the future are beyond the scope of the INTERCHANGE.

Ed Fritz

Well, I don't know that anyone actually replied as to what their museum did or did not do on Labor Day, so it's kinda pre-judging the case that such a presentation was "blocked." I think we still don't know what people did or did not do.

I was out of town on Labor Day, but the organization I now volunteer with, the National Capital Trolley Museum, scheduled the following special programming:

"Special events, September 6: Trolleymen at Work
See Ten Seconds to Go, A world War II film for employees of Kansas Public Service. View Washington Work cars. Ride street cars (last Car Departs 4:30). "

On September 6th I asked the following questions about a Labor Day message:

"Is the above brief statement accurate?"

"If your institution did not add any narration to the Labor Day weekend about the significance of the holiday and its relationship to railroading, why was it that you did not add a narration about the holiday?"

I received no serious replies. Then on the 7th we get three replies on time-and-a-half pay on holidays, which really has nothing to do with my thread.

I reply with a statement, that basically states I get double time-and-a-half, but I'm still looking for answers to my two questions from posters on this board. I get none...

Mind you, these are ligament question for this board, I get no replies. So on September 11th, I ramp-up the thread with; "What blocks you folks in the museum/tourist operation from a 30 second deal on labor?" It should have said..."a 30 second deal on Labor Day."

I then added; "Maybe, us union railfans should visit your sites and give you a pass/fail!" I then went on to say; "I'm serious here. I really wanted some insight, not a UTU members BS on time-an-half."

I really wanted some insight here about my questions, got no replies.

Bob Y, I was wrong to say; "UTU members BS on time-an-half." But, apparently it stimulated you, our Bob Y into his next message on this thread. Which did shed some light on the reasons why labor gets no respect. Thanks Bob, for taking the time to write that reply. If your anything like me, it took some time and thought.

The next reply to the thread came a day later, on the 12th of September by Randy Hees. He said the message I was carrying might be smacking of "political correctness."

No, unionism has never been, and still is not politically correct. All I was asking for was a 30 second narration added to those facilities that provide a interruptive guide to their Labor Day schedule.

Then Randy, you go on about railroad museums are not labor museums. Randy, I never wanted the 30 second addition to a interruptive Labor Day narration to included anything more than a tribute to rail unions and the source of Labor Day.

Did not want the IBT, IWA, CIO/AFL, IWW or any other labor outfit mentioned.

Finally, Tom C brings some good, and positive point ups, why rail labor issues should be introduced in everyday operation, where a interruptive narration is given. Four star posting to this thread.

Then on 13 September, Scott writes the following:"This is a "heads up" to the moderators. I have run across "Jimmy B" on several other rail forums. If you do not agree with his pro-union issues, a vicious diatribe will follow. I would recommend closing the thread."

Yes, on occasion, I've run a vicious diatribe Scott on anti union threads and responses, but not here on this thread at this time. Its time for us in labor to bring facts to the table in a rational manner.

And it is very much "politically correct," to blame unions for historical mistakes by railroad management in my opinion.

Ed Fritz; beside my slip to Bob Y about time-and-a-half, which I'm sorry for, I only want to discuss a 30 second addition to an already existing interruptive program at those institutions which provide services on Labor Day.

Erik L, thank you for making folks aware that none of my two question were answered. Yes, I might have prejudged some institutions.

As a taxpayer in Nevada, and a friend of the NSRM, I understand that the Nevada State Railroad Museum turned Labor Day into a military holiday. Was not there but seem to remember them advertising the Nevada National Guard would be there...BTW, one of my sons is an active marine.

This is Labor Day:

Gompers, in 1898, referred to Labor Day as, ‘the day for which the toilers in past centuries looked forward, when their rights and their wrongs would be discussed…that the workers of our day may not only lay down their tools of labor for a holiday, but upon which they may touch shoulders in marching phalanx and feel the stronger for it.â€

I kept trying to ad the details of who and where I am, the board wouldn't update them - So, here are the details: Jimmy Bryant, 7440 West 4th Street No 18, Reno, Nevada - 775-746-4106 - lassenlogger@charter.net.

One always should sign his works.

Jimmy "B"

Jimmy, I suggest that after you log in, click "Profile" at the top of the page, and then add your information in the "signature" block. Be sure to click "always include signature when I post." Then your posts will be signed with whatever information you wish to provide.