In the realm of wild hares....

The original power of the Alder Gulch Shortline, a 1 1/2 mile 30" gauge railroad built in the 1960's, were two former Anaconda Copper Company Porter 0-4-0T's. The engines, which I believe were numbered 10 and 11, were operated from 1964 to 1969 and then were stored in an enginehouse until it burned in 1991. Both engines were caught in the blaze and remained on the site for a couple years afterword. They are still stored nearby.

Now, since 30" gauge steam locomotives are not terribly common, would it be practicable to rebuild these engines? Would the boiler shell be damaged. Assuming that the rods lost their temper from the heat, could they be re-tempered? What other issues would need to be addressed if one were going to attempt such an effort.

I ask because one other idea suggested would be to try to repatriate a 30" gauge locomotive from Cuba, but given the problems associated with that idea, it would seem simpler to rebuild one of the 0-4-0's or to build a new engine.

The Montana Heritage Commissioni now operates a Baldwin 2-8-0 on the line. No, none of this is even remotely on the horizon, but eventually #12 will be due for it's Form 4 work and folks are wondering what will be running in it's stead during the down time.

Ideas?

Michael Seitz
Missoula MT

Short and not too helpful answer is it depends on the extent of the blaze and how hot things got for how long. It wasn't uncommon in days gone by for engines to be rebuilt after having been caught in enginehouses that burned down around them. GENERAL was blown up and burned at the head of an ammunition train in Atlanta as Sherman approached, was rebuilt at least two or three times, the last in 1961.

Metal can be tested to determine its condition. Obvious things like deformation can be readily seen. Does anybody out there run with tempered rods, new one on me. Certainly bearing materials and surfaces will need a lot of inspection, and I would be more concerned about the integrity of any bronze valves and fittings and the temper of springs than the boilers or heavy steel running gear parts.

Might be nice to being home so Cuban stuff OTOH. Why not do both?

dave

You might post your question to the attention of Dan Markoff over on the Narrow Gauge Discussion Forum at http://www.ngdiscussion.net.

Dan rebuilt the "Eureka" 4-4-0 into the gem she is today after she was fairly extensively damaged in a fire while on static display. As his time permits, he's very gracious about answering questions. He's certainly done exactly what you're asking about.

Come to think of it, the Durango and Silverton also has some sad recent experience along these lines; someone from there might chime in, too.

CPR #29, a 4-4-0 of very important historical significance, was severely burned in a fire while she worked at the Salem & Hillsborough Railway in New Brunswick. All her original support timbers and wooden structure were burned to ash, while the tender and coal were also immolated. When I saw her, she had been coated in a preservative gel. The S&H could not repair her, and perhaps were a little afraid of steaming her again. She went back to the C.P. and now stands stuffed and mounted outside the Calgary offices. A real loss, and possibly a recovereable locomotive. CPR runs a Hudson today, so it's definitely not an anti-steam bent.
Then there is the Reading 2101, toasted in the extreme, but fixable. Probably an operable loco under that paint, but we probably won't ever know for certain.

Dave's got the right idea. Heat above about 1000 deg. F. causes the steel to lose a large percentage of its strength. Structure fires often exceed 1500 and up. The longer and hotter, the worse off you are. It also maters how it's extinguished (cooled). Steel strength tests will likely show a variety of integrety around all the steel parts. All pressure vessels at that point become suspect. It would be quite a project just to evalute how much the steel was compromised.

I think the best bet is to use the fire damaged parts as patterns for fabricating new parts. It would probably be cheaper than the extensive testing necessary to find out if the old parts are still good. You might try getting a hold of O'Connor Engineering, the folks who built the replicas of the Jupiter and 119 for Promnotory.

The Sumpter Valley suffered a catastrophic round house fire in Jan. 1921. Among the engines in the round house were #19 and #20 the engines we have today. Both engines were brand new and the story I've been told was that #20 hadn't turned a revenue mile before the fire due to some damage to the trailing truck that had occured in shipment from ALCO. Both engine were repaired and have had long operating careers on the SVRy and the WP&Y. 19 is of course restored and operational today. As far as I know of the 6 or 7 engines that went through the fire, only one was not returned to service.[url]svry.com[/url]

Mike,
About thirty years ago I was at a tractor salvage yard with my Uncle.
There was a burned tractor there, no paint or rubber left on it. I asked what value was in it and was told the oil was still in the gearbox so it hadn't got hot enough to dammage the gears and they were pretty pricey gears.
I have also been told that some inspecters have required welded boilers to be anneled in a funace. The things I would worry about would be cracked castings from uneven heating and sudden cooling, hardened parts anneled or soft parts hardened by quenching. Also I would check bearing and rod brasses for evidence of melting or crystallizaion. Even if there was a lot of dammage the slow speed you run gives you some wiggle room on hidden cracks and such. Of course I would be extra, extra careful inspecting the boiler. Remember metal melts when welded and welded repairs are done on all kinds of machines with no trouble.
I was there years ago, the loco's were cold then but they were nice to see.
Good luck.