Isn't this one of the D&H/Mexico PA's? Which one did it become? San Bernardino, California, March 10, 1949.

http://www.snowcrest.net/photobob/sfl26.html

Which again begs the question, what do the Mexicans want with two operable US locomotives, particularly when they have minimal connection with Mexican railways? Somewhere there hasto be a method to the madness.

You could make a similar argument as to why the various museums of Europe have Egyptian collections or why a US museum would have paintings from Europe....

James

Honestly James, I see your point but I don't think the arguments line up. One is classical artistic interpretation of a particular ancient age, or possibly the style of a particular artist who pioneered a new vision , technique, or medium. The ALCO PA's were not highly regarded for their design or longevity of service on Mexican railways. Now, had the Mexicans chosen to save a couple of H-16-44's, I could see the relevance, as some existed south of the border for many, many years. Less glamorous locomotives, but there are many who regret the fact that the Cnadians have the only one left, iirc.
I'm not meaning to start any kind of argument on this, but to simply distinguish my viewpoint.

I can understand why the Mexacans want to keep their last 2 remaining PAs..they ran there! they belonged to them..
the fact that they first ran on the Santa Fe and the D&H is irrelevant..
they still went to Mexico and were used there..
they have as much a "claim" to them as we do..

Look at all the big Alcos and MLW's that ran in Australia..
would we consider it strange if a railroad or museum in Australia wanted to display them and felt they were a part of their railroad heritage?
should a Canadian museum not display an Alco that ran most of its career in the US, and only a few years in Canada?
of course not..
Mexico and Australia have no diesel makers of their own..
they all come from the US or Canada..(ok..maybe Europe too,,but you see the point.)
yes, I also would rather have those 2 PAs in America!
but we should be happy we got 2 of them back..
and we should be happy the 2 remaining in Mexico are at least being well cared for..the Mexicans seem proud of them!
and they arent likely to be scrapped..so its all good!

Railroad museums all over the USA have locomotives on display that never ran anywhere near them..
Steamtown has a Big Boy.
there is a GG1 in Syracuse NY..a little weird maybe, but whos to say they *shouldnt* have it?
better preserved far from "home rails" than scrapped..
Scot

scottychaos Wrote:

Australia have no diesel makers of their own..
they all come from the US or Canada.

Say what? Are you refering to the design of the diesel engine used in the locomotive? The following lists the various builders in Australia:

http://locopage.railpage.org.au/builders.html

Richard W.

I'd like to know who venerated the 2000 hp Alco passenger units for their 'design'? Certainly not the railroads that purchased them !!! Some of these locomotrives barely lasted 10 years in service.

What do you mean by 'design' ? Do you mean the outer envelope, the mechanical portion -electrical portion-what ???

Fact is-these locomotives can probably be blamed for a) beginning a chain of events that ultimately led to the demise of the manufacturer and b) beginning another chain of events that pushed the builders' largest supplier (GE) toward entering the d/e road locomotive business on their own.

Sure, the PAs are venerated mostly for their styling, the outer envelope as you put it, no secret there. But it IS a heck of a style, and aesthetics can be a legitimate criterion for selecting something for preservation.

If no one preserved any F or E units anywhere I'd agree that preservationists had fallen down on the job by not saving the most representative and successful 1st generation passenger diesel designs--designs that are an aesthetic landmark in their own right (the standard US highway department graphic sign for "train station" still shows a stylized EMD bulldog noise).

But since we do have a fine sampling of Es and Fs in preservation, I don't have a problem with trying to save one or two survivors of a model that was widely used in its own right, was aethetically influential (how many people grew up with American Flyer S-gauge PAs from Gilbert?), and was the winning design's major competitor.

Think about it--saving a PA and displaying it is actually the best way to interpret exactly the factors you are pointing to--that a pretty face can't make up for bad mechanicals, and that even a design icon can fail in the marketplace if it doesn't serve its basic economic function as well as its competitor did.

Erik's points are well taken. If we follow the "it failed don't save it model" then we would have to abondon most (if not all) steam locomotives. Passenger trains, especially post WWII lightweights must go. REA, firemen, etc. Let's not even go to dining cars losing 30 cents or so for every dollar taken it.