That was also where I had it listed (Dyers Quarry, Rte 724 & Red Shed Rd., Monocacy Station, PA, USA); and found a quarry at that location using Microsoft Terraserver.

I was also told that it was a Bas 0-4-0 and two 0-4-0T dockside engines.

Leonard; did you contact me about this many years ago? I tried to find the original e-mail in my files; but after tens of thousands of messages and a couple of changes in hardware; I guess I missplaced it. But everything you say agrees with what I was told many years ago.

If it is nothing but a rumor; it has been a consistant one over the tellers and years.

-James Hefner
Hebrews 10:20a

Surviving World Steam Project

Yes I told you about this locomotive a few years back I beleave around 1997 I think?
Are you the one that has Steamlocomotives.com??

If so its not on display Yet . I was also the one that told you about the Lehigh Coal and Navigation 42" locomotives in Phoenixville, Pa.

Len

Yes, it was in that timeframe. It is Wes Barris who maintains the steamlocomotive.com website; but he and I were in regular touch at that time. (We are both overloaded with e-mail, and don't get to correspond like I would like to.)

And yes; the four steam locomotives you mentioned in Phoenixville were all listed in J. David Conrad's Directory of North American Steam Locomotives I have them all listed at "Bob Ottinger, Spring City Rd., Phoenixville, PA, USA"; in my source column, I list your e-mail and Conrad's directory as the source.

It was because your notes on the locomotives in Phoenixville turned out to be correct, and I was able to find the quarry on Terraserver that I believe you are correct. I hope someone is able to safely check it out and confirm you are right.

-James Hefner
Hebrews 10:20a

Surviving World Steam Project

Additional information has been supplied via Charlie Horan, a long-time member of the PRRT&HS; take it for what you will:

"Thought you might like to see this info, from a friend of mine! As you can tell from his in-depth comments he KNOWS about these things!

ceh
--------------------

It amazes me how people come up with these things. There must be some sort of sickness out there.

B6sa (not B6sb) # 750 was dropped from the equipment records on September 29, 1950 with tender # 119, class 55S66a, and sold for scrap to Luria Brothers & Company, delivered to them on November 28, 1950.

The mention of Dyer does bring up a point.

The PRR had three direct locomotive dealings with the John T. Dyer Quarry Company that involved four engines:

On September 9, 1892, the PRR conveyed # 137, class F (known as B1 after September 1, 1897) to Dyer as SETTLEMENT for a Dyer engine wrecked on the PRR. No money was involved.

On September 5, 1906, the PRR sold # 1257, class B3, to Dyer for $2,300.00.

On August 24, 1911, the PRR sold # 01187 (formerly # 1187), class H3, to the G.R. McAbee Powder & Oil Company, Philadelphia, PA for $ 2,000.00. The engine apparently was afterwards resold to Dyer (date unknown), though the circumstances of that transaction are unknown.

Lastly, in 1939 (exact date not handy.........would have to look it up), the PRR traded # 828, class B8, to Dyer, (no money involved) specifically to acquire their former # 01187 for preservation as a relic and exhibition at the New York World's Fair. That engine, of course, resides at Strasburg to this day.
I have the original correspondence in regard to the search by the PRR to locate a class H3. I, also, have the original correspondence regarding the actual TRADE.

Since the PRR did not maintain disposition records for outside companies, there is no record of what happened to #828. Whether or not that engine became stranded in a flooded quarry is unknown. The newspapers for the town where this was supposed to have occurred might be a source of information, as would be records of the register of deeds at the county court house. Surely, a "lost" locomotive and other equipment would have been "news" and a possible end for the quarry company.

The Dyer Quarry was a big operation............believe they mined limestone. There may have been one or more excavation sites. A prospective location would be hard to determine, even from utilizing topographical maps. It could be a huge area to search. While logic would suggest.......IF the engine and tender are under water, they would be rusted beyond recognition, someone (with a purpose, or curiosity) might want to figure out the location and take a dive to see. Good luck to them."

Mitchell ,
Thanks for the historical information on the locomotives that Dyer owned.
I found the video that I took in February 28, 1996 of the quarry showing how large in size it is and showing the water hights at that date in time, also in the video its shows the rail bed and rusty rail laying to the side of the ROW , and the date on the rails are 1913 and there 165 lbs.
When I was there in 1999 I couldn`t take pictures was not aloud for that`s what the State Park Ranger told us . My friend and I .

Dyer owns two very large quarries in Gibralter, Pa. along US Route 724 and Quarry Rd, Rock Hollow Rd.

They quarry stone for railroad road beds and other uses, its not limestone, thats mined down in Devalt, Pa. on another branch of the PRR.

Leonard.

Ps. I`m a locale around theses quarries . I know Moncoacy and Birdsboro like the back of my hand . I know of older quarries that haven`t been used in over 100 years , I know of iron ore mines, Graphite mines, ect.

Now I`m not saying theres locomotives in any of thoses quarries just the one in Monocacy.

Hello Mitchell,
Have a question for you, Is there a website on that information on the locomotives of Dyer Company?

Leonard

[quote: On August 24, 1911, the PRR sold # 01187 (formerly # 1187), class H3, to the G.R. McAbee Powder & Oil Company, Philadelphia, PA for $ 2,000.00. The engine apparently was afterwards resold to Dyer (date unknown), ]

An article about PRR H3 1187 in an early issue of THE MILEPOST (Friends of the RMofP newsletter) lists 1913 as the year that McAbee Powder & Oil sold 1187 to the John T. Dyer Company. 1187 worked the Birdsboro quarry from 1913 until 1939.

As I noted earlier, 1187 had been converted from a 2-8-0 into a 0-8-0. The article has a photo of 1187 (as a 0-8-0) taken at the Dyer quarry. The article includes the same information listed above that the PRR traded a class B8 0-6-0 to Dyer in 1939 to get 1187 back as an exhibit for the 1939-40 New York Worlds Fair. One could speculate that this class B8 0-6-0 was the last steam locomotive used to move hoppers on the Dyer quarry spur.

As I mentioned earlier there is perhaps a chance that some other locomotive, more likely a small narrow gauge 0-4-0T, was used down in the pit and was left behind when the quarry closed. There is most likely SOMETHING down there, but it very well may be a piece of quarry machinery instead of a lost locomotive.

Now if someone really wants to investigate the matter (without getting wet!) in terms of "historical research", one, so far overlooked, possibility would be to contact the John T. Dyer Company (now doing business as Dyer Quarry Inc) and see if they have any information from company records they might be willing to share. As Len stated, Dyer is still very much in business and operating a large traprock quarry southwest of Birdsboro. You might have to convince them that you are NOT from the state DEP or federal EPA trying to nail them for "ground water contamination (aka "rusty choo choo") from an adandoned quarry"!

Regards,
Jim Robinson

Now HERE's how Schuylkill Valley can make himself useful.

The divers and I are all out of state, whereas he claims to be local to the area...........

Let us know what Dyer Co. says............

I have already been thinking about contacting the Dyer quarry Inc.

Now Mitchell said I claim to live in the area. Well I do live in the area that is a fact . I live in East Coventry Township Chester County, Pa. I have a Pottstown mailling address. I live only about 7 miles from Monocacy right up US. Route 724. Where are all of you from?

As I stated before I told you`s about this locomotive thats in the quarry, because I thought maybe by chance I could help to save a part of PRR history , if in fact it is a B-8, it would be the only one in the world of the PRR that was not scraped.

As I stated My friend that worked for Conrail was trying to help me recover this locomotive, he had contacts that own very large cranes that could raze the locomotive out of the quarry, but in 1998 My friend pankrest cancer and couldn`t continue helping. He retired from Conrail on a Med. discharge. He made his last trip to the quarry with his diving friends in 2000 , which they did find a steam locomotive. The one diver taped it with a small hammmer, the diver said it sounded sound.

My friends name was Dan M. Calvaresi, Jr. He past last year in March he was only 52 years old . The cancer infected his knindys, he was taking diellis 3 times a week. I new Dan for 10 years.

He was a member of the R.C.T.& H.S. and the Conrail T. & H. S.
Dan lived in Birdsboro and the Reading area his whole life. He told me he heard that there was a locomotive in that quarry as he was a small child.

I had another good friend that told me about the locomotive too. His name was William R. Luck of Rading, Pa. He worked for the Reading Company as crane operator in the locomotive shop when he was 18 , He told me one time that He drop a G-1 on the floor. The man on the floor gave him the wrong hand signles . needless to say that man was fired on the spot.
Bill like a lot other went off the War at age 21, they all called him pops for he was older then the rest .
When Bill came home his Father told him that Pendot was hiring so he went and worked for the State. Bill told me he was incharge of rebuilding US. Route 724. In Monocacy they rebuilt 724 through the canal bed which took it under the PRR through a red stone underpass, He told me that the stone came from the Monocacy quarry, which is only 3 miles from there.

The railroad was still used and he saw the swither hauling cars down to the conection at cp.Mon. that was the year 1949.

Bill and 13 others started the Wanamaker Kempton & Southern Steam Railroad in 1963 Kempton, Pa.

Leonard

Hi all,
I have been making some phone calls and found a lot of information .

I found out from the Berks County Historical Soeity that the quarry was organized by Schuylkill Valley Stone Company in 1907, by capitalist of Birdsboro, Norristown and Philadelphia, who established a large crusher plant in Union Towhship, one mile south of Monocacy. With a complete equipment for supplying crush stone and Belgian blocks in great quantities.

A railroad spur was built from the Pennsylvania railroad to the quarry.
Over a half of million dollors has been expended thus far in this enterprise.

The John T. Dyer Quarry Company bought out the Schuylkill Valley Stone Company in 1915 as part of a consoildation of five quarries in the area of Monocacy, Birdsboro and Gibralter, Pa.

Now I was talking to Mr. Jerry Rittenbugh of Union Township who worked many years for dyer haulling stone. He told me when dyer closed down the quarry in Monocacy, they left every thing they didn`t want in the quarry, and wrote it off as a total loss. He also told me they owned another quarry in Birdsboro off Route 82 next to Hay Creek and the Reading railroad`s W&N branch. He told me that when they closed that quarry up in 1925 they did the very same thing. He told he heard there were equipment in that quarry too. The quarry is now used as Birdsboro water shed.

Leonard

I have more information on the quarry, I was talking with a man on the phone his name is David Shirey of Geigertown, Pa. when he was growing up he lived in Kulpstown which is right next the quarry. He told me that doring the day hours between 12:30 pm. and 2:30 pm. they would set off the TnT. He told me it shooked the heck out of every one that lived by.
I ask him about the railroad leading up to the quarry, He told me " The PRR built that spur for Dyer in the teens " He also stated " The loco would back down a switchback into the quarry. He told me they used two loco`s there one in the quarry to move cars around and one up top to transport the cars down to the main. He also told me that there was a railyard at Monocacy frieght station that would hold 6 tracks of stone cars.

He remembered the day the quarry closed, it was May 13, 1960 and he and his son Dave, Jr. was picking up a load of stone in their truck, when the quarry boss walked out of the office and told the engineer to pull the locomotive into the quarry along with the to junker engines . We asked the boss how come he was to do that . the boss said today is the last day of operation at this site. and all old equipment is to be shoved into the quarry .
He told me there was a lot that was put in there , Trucks, old railcars,three locomotives, two cranes, one bulldozer, ect.
That night they shut off the pumps and the quarry slowly started to fill up with water.

I asked him how deep the quarry was and he said " from back wall to bottom its about 150 feet deep. He said that the water is about 91 feet deep in some places.

He also told me theres two ways of getting in there one way is the old rail bed , the other is to take crusher Rd. and then theres a long stone driveway back to the quarry.

Leonard

Hi Leonard;

Is this the quarry, shown on a USGS Topo map? It shows Kulptown just a few hundred meters NW of the quarry; and also shows a railroad siding terminating at the quarry:

http://terraserver-usa.com/image.aspx?T=2&S=12&Z=18&X=541&Y=5567&W=1&qs=%7cKulptown%7cPA

This is an aerial photograph of the same area; you can clearly see that the quarry is flooded, and a ramp extending into the quarry from the same area as the siding. The siding and the ramp extending into the quarry both appear to have terminated in a wye:

http://terraserver-usa.com/image.aspx?T=1&S=10&Z=18&X=2166&Y=22270&W=3&qs=%7cKulptown%7cPA

-James Hefner
Hebrews 10:20a

Surviving World Steam Project

Yes I see that , but that`s not a wye track . The trail to the right is just a dirt quarry road for trucks. The rails leading into the quarry disapears at the edge of the water, so you really can `t say yes or say no about if the tracks went into the quarry. All the people that I spoke with told me that they did go down in .

So at that the only real way is to have a diver or a guy with a boat and water proof video camera .

Len

I just wanted this thred on page one like the other one is.

Leonard.