Perhaps some of you can offer specific advice or contacts to help with this challenge. Forgive me if I do not reveal the specific details here, but it must remain confidential for a time.

Here is the challenge: a heavyweight Pullman Diner, intact and in excellent condition, has been parked for years on a panel track without access to an operating rail line. We need to move the car and are considering two options.

1) Use a crane, remove the trucks, and move by truck pulling an over the road flat car - the move is about 30 miles.
2) build panel track to live track 300 yards away, and pay the railroad to move it, presuming the bearings will turn, brakes made safe enough, etc.

Some key Issues, aside from money, which is always an issue:

1) truck - clearances on the various roadways and highways; size of crane required to lift 100 tons; safely removing and transporting the trucks separately from the car (is this the best way to do it?)
2) rail - agony of working with the railroad; cost and permisssions from city to lay panel track; servicing the car to make it safe to move as freight in tow; handling the move at the closest point from the rail line, will still require a truck at that end, no matter what.
3)general: what companies in Ohio do this sort of work, either the rail scenario, or the highway scenario?

Can you help me find the right experts to advise and plan this move? This is not a museum with in-house expertise.

What considerations have I missed (many, I'm sure)?

Thanks, I'll leave it at this and wait for the howls to begin!

Peter Bowler, Akron, OH

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Peter:

If I read your message correctly, it sounds as if this move is from one static display location to another static display location.

I don't know the particulars of your land route, but it would seem that if you're not planning to operate this car after the move, then all the prep for a rail move is money (more or less) down the drain.

I'm sure there are experts in the area to help you plan your land move, perhaps even some of those who frequent this board.

Good luck. Make sure and keep us apprised of your progress.

Scott

Hello,

Could you provide some more information about this car, such as who it was built for and number(s), how it has been used since leaving rail service and what future plans are for it. There are very few intact heavyweight dining cars, and it is always good to hear about a survivor.

Many thanks,
Tom Cornillie

Before you expend any effort to move the car by rail, check with the railroad that you want to do the move: will they move it under any circumstances; if yes what are the circumstances? If it's a big RR (NS, CSX) my guess is they will not move it at all.

If a RR move is out of the question, then you will need a specialty trucker such as the one Kelly recommended. I don't know who's in your area.

Pete.

We have had very good service from Silk Road Transport, Arkport NY, (607) 295-7406 www.silkroadtrans.com

You could also speak to Ron Jedlicka, whom I believe is with the Buckeye Central R.R. and has been involved in a quite a number of equipment moves.

Gord McOuat,
MM, Halton County Radial Ry.
Milton, ON, Canada

You are asking all the right questions, at least most of them.

For land moves we have used SILK ROAD TRANSPORT in Arkport NY but a 100 ton Pullman may be beyond their equiment.

On a land move the trucks need to come off and that means two cranes to lift the car, one at each end. Also you would need to find a hauler with heavy duty low profile dollies to put under the car. Probably everything about the car will require special permitting and special routing - especially weight, height, length.

If the car has friction bearing trucks movement by rail on its own wheels is probably out of the question even with good repair and maintenance. With roller bearing trucks it will have to pass an inspection for air brakes, saftey appliances, etc and a clearance review made. Even then you will have to apply for a waiver for the move, based on age, and that MAY mean the railroad is NOT responsible for any damage or mishaps during the move.

A subset of this option is to borrow a set of roller bearing heavyweight trucks to facilitiate the move by rail.

The third option is movement by rail on a piggyback car - actually two cars since one will be needed for the trucks. Height and clearance will be an issue there also, but doable. Again, two cranes rented at each end of the move. And professional tie downs and anchoring of the load to be approved by the carrier.
It would be a given to get more than one quote for such a job but this may be so specialized you will be glad to find just one company to do the work. Good luck and keep us informed.

Bob Kutella

In 1991, Railroad Museum of New England worked with Silk Road and a large crane outfit from Boston to move 5 Pullmans out of a backyard in Stonington, CT, 6 miles by road to put them back on live rail. A 6th car was moved by/for Valley Railroad as part of the same project.

To start with, the heaviest car (a sleeper) weighed 58 tons without its trucks (which were 13 tons each). These weights were read off the crane's weight readout during the lifts. I suspect that the carbody of the diner is no more than 60-65 tons, and the trucks are in the same range as ours.

As an example, some weights of NYNH&H heavyweight diners:
182,000 lbs complete, less provisions and ice, trucks 24,900 lbs. each.
166,500 lbs complete, less provisions and ice, trucks 23,050 lbs. each.
So, even the heavier car is 66 tons for the carbody, less trucks.

The move involved road dollies, essentially rubber-tired "trucks" which replaced the car's own trucks, and enabled the carbody to be pulled over the road by a typical tractor (like in "tractor-trailer", not "farm tractor"). Depending on the height of the dollies, the overall height of the car during the move could wind up no more than 14.5 or 15 feet.

I would strongly suggest that you avoid trying to move this car by rail if you can do this move any other way.

Send me your mailing address, and I will send you a copy of our publication illustrating this move. It might be useful for you in this project.

Howard Pincus
Railroad Museum of New England
Thomaston, CT

www.rmne.org

If you have to move it by truck anyway, don't waste the time and money dealing with railroads.

One crane can lift the rear and install a wheeled dolly. You might have to cut holes in the frame to allow a tie down. Then, reposition the crane and left the other end onto a beam that pivits - again, tie it down. Inside the cars, you will find a centerpin - pull it first to allow the trucks to drop off.

Good luck - it has been done many times - you can do it.

Jim

While a couple of good contractors have been mentioned in this thread, I would first check around for local riggers or even house movers. Sometimes a local contractor with a bit of ingenuity can save you a lot of money versus bringing somebody in from out of state.

In the Altoona, PA, area, we have a local crane man who has an interest in railroads and who has moved several passenger cars and cabooses. We also have a nearby house moving contractor who has successfully transported locomotives (steam and diesel), coaches, cabooses, a large turntable, and depots - all done very economically and usually without the need for a crane. Unfortunately he doesn't care to work much beyond the local area, but the point is you might find someone similar in your neck of the woods.

Alan Maples

Or you could do as we did, and have a couple of cradles welded up to loosely support both sides of the bolster, with a heavy section of steel tube used as a center pin.

Much safer than using cribbing, cables, etc., and much easier as well.

These cradles are bolted down to the contractor's "dollies", mentioned in a previous reply. We have moved nine passenger cars this way, and it is safe, quick, and easy.

Our cradles are buried in snow right now so I can't take photos, but if you remind me in a month or two I'll be glad to do so.

Steve Hunter,
Trustee, Smiths Falls Railway Museum




[quote] You might have to cut holes in the frame to allow a tie down

Be VERY careful when cutting any holes into the frame, as if this is done improperly or in the wrong location it can prompt the formation of cracks in the future - which are extremely difficult and expensive to repair. Many heavyweight cars that are in otherwise good shape are kept out of service for this reason.

Tom Cornillie

I'd talk with the guys at Cuyahoga about who they used to move our ex-GTW combine and their ex-PRR heavyweight out of Quaker Square five years ago --- as I recall, it was a pretty sweet deal all the way around. I'd be happy to give you contact info with those guys if your don't already know them. That raises another question --- is this another Qauker Square car?

TJ Gaffney
Port Huron Museum

Pete,
When we moved the two cars out of Quaker Square we used Klier Structural Movers out of Wellington, Ohio 440-647-2405, they did a great job of moving two cars out of a very tight area.
Venezia Enterprises 732-364-0994 is also very good, and will have one of his trucks in the area in May.
If I can be of any assistance please feel free to contact me off list.

B. Allan
CVSR

Can something that weighs 100 tons be moved on the highways? I would think some bridges might not handle that kind of weight. Also, I recently saw a 200 ton transformer get moved from a rail siding to final position and the trailer that moved it was assembled on site and was not street legal.

Our heavyweight diner weights 98 tons. I am thankful it was still on the rails and has roller bearings. We have moved it several times over NS and shortlines without any trouble.