http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPi ... x?id=71961

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPi ... x?id=71962

Found these photos of two B&LE engines in 1980 says the first one went to Henry Ford Museum the other went to display in Greenville and I am assuming that the third one they mention would be the one that was restored that was a 2-10-4. Too bad the one on display in Greenville still wasn't in the shops instead of outside. Any body have any stories of these engines and why they stayed with the RR for so long?

You are correct, the third one was the 643, a 2-10-4.

We visited Greenville in about 1979, and found the railroad to be very friendly. We first visited the depot, which happened to be where the President of the B&LE had his office. He was not there at the time, but his secretary welcomed us, gave us company calendars and other goodies, and gave us directions to the main office building. We went over there, and they immediately took a guy off of a desk job, and he escorted us over to the roundhouse. He stayed nearby, but aside from that, we could climb all over the engines, take pictures, and do pretty much anything we wanted.

The hospitality to my Dad and me was well "above and beyond" the call of duty. Because of that, the B&LE will always be one of my favorites.

John Redden

Does anyone know where the 643 is kept now? I saw some pics of it outside is it outside or in the warehouse?

As of last year, 643 ("The King" to some) was sitting in a warehouse in McKee's Rocks, PA. It's interesting that there's such a large locomotive sitting around and not receiving more attention from the railfan world, but I suppose it doesn't see the spotlight much since it's out of public view.

I've been told from a few different sources she's in pretty good condition, and had some major firebox work done in the not-so-distant past.

Maybe someday...?

The three engines preserved at Greenville from 1954 on were 1909 BLW 2-8-0 154, 1943 BLW 2-10-4 643, and the ex-DM&IR/Union RR 0-10-2 604, originally URR 304, also from BLW, c.1936. They were preserved by then B&LE president Roy Beaver. Mr. Beaver is also well remembered by railfans of the 50s as being virulently anti-photography, having been infected with the U. S. Steel mentality that all photography is evil and must be stamped out. Ask anyone who tried shooting around USS mills in the 50s and 60s. The B&LE was much easier to deal with in later years.

Texas 643 is currently stored inside a building at the McKees Rocks Industrial Enterprises Co. on Nichols Ave. in the McKees Rocks "bottoms," about 4 miles downstream from downtown Pittsburgh. This site is the former Pressed Steel Car Co. plant, operated as an industrial park since the demise of PSCCo c.1950. It is also the home of the Pittsburgh, Allegheny & McKees Rocks RR Co., an inconspicuous common carrier that dates well back into Pressed Steel days. For a tiny operation with perhaps a mile of track it has rostered over 20 diesels since the early 50s, as a result of having dabbled in loco sales and rebuilding at times. The present power is a lone EMD switcher but the two GE 70 tonners that were the previous roster may still be on the property.

The 0-10-2 joined the Greenville collection about 1960 after the demise of steam on the Missabe. It is presently on display in Greenville, PA with one side lettered DM&IR 604 and the other URR 304. The 2-8-0, one of a class that when first built were the heaviest locos in the world, was involved in a three way swap involving Greenfield Village, IRM, and the B&LE and has ended up stuffed and mounted at Dearborn.

643 on the other hand moved from Greenville to Pittsburgh in 1987 and has moved about the Pgh. area several times since. While it was steamed at one point, it has never operated under its own power since being chosen for preservation in 1954. Will it ever run again? Doubtful. It is an enormous engine with a huge rigid wheelbase, massive axle loads, and a vast appetite for coal and water. On the B&LE these engines did drag service only. Anything over about 30/35 mph would leave a trail of kinked rails as they were very limited in how well they could be counterbalanced due to the limited driver size, long piston stroke, and massive rods. Any talk of running it in excursion service is just that, talk. While countless rumors about its fate have circulated over the years the fact remains that it is hidden from view in a private facility and is highly likely to remain so with the railroad's current attitudes toward steam operation, particularly VERY BIG steam. A better fate for it might have been the RR Museum of PA, where it least it could be viewed.

I had always heard that the weight issues would keep 643 out of excursion service. The fact that these engines were heavy freight engines makes them unsuitable for excursion service as they were probably pretty slow too. However with all the difficulties aside, weight, etc they would be great candidates for operation since two of them have been indoors for so long. Where would one operate such engines? Who knows, but it would be nice to see. Will it happen? Most likely not but one can hope. I have become fascinated with these engines because they are unique. Heavy freight locomotives that sat in a roundhouse for a long period of time. They aren't like most engines you see preserved such as pacifics, consolidations, mikados, northerns, and the more popular models. Most engines you see are either light switchers, passenger engines, branch line engines or Canadian. I must say that it is nice to see that someone had the foresight to preserve engines that were made to haul long heavy freights at slow speeds, and keep the materials coming in and out of America's steel plants.

Tim,
This engine did get a lot of attention from the railfan world. It went through a restoration, and everyone was just waiting for the first trips to be announced. During this time(late 1980's) we were getting new engines all the time on the excursion scene. Engines like 1218, 1522, L&N152, NKP 587, just to name a few. 643 was early anticipated, but alas the stars were not aligned for it to happen. It was owned by a guy named Glen Campbell(not the singer) at one time, and I think it may have been steamed up once as a test firing during the restoration. You are right though it has not been the focus of much fan attention lately, instead we dwell on 2100, 1361, and others perhaps.
The 80's were a fun time for the steam fan with many engines making debuts(including 1361), and one had to make hard choices on certain weekends cause there were so many things running. Today thats not a problem!
Cheers,
Greg Scholl

http://www.gregschollvideo.com

I had the treat of discovering all three in July, 1974, stuffed in the Greenville Roundhouse. BLE was friendly, it was an 'official' tour, and I have photos of that day. I was pretty astounded.

643 is one of the unfortunate 2-10-4's that appears to have extremely severe counterbalance problems above about 25mph; i.e. non-lightweight rods. The builder specs on these locomotives are mind-boggling in terms of axle loads, total weight, etc. B&LE had incredible track and bridge standards that could bear it, but today it's enough to give about anybody that seriously looks at it a severe case of heartburn. It's not a Class-III or even Class-II railroad friendly locomotive, and with no 'heritage' to an operating Class-1, not a whole lot of sympathizers among railroaders today. I'd love to be proven wrong over time, don't get me wrong, but there are legitimate reasons why it is stuck where it is.

Is there anywhere this info can be found. Steam Locomotive Information doesn't even have the "Texas -- 2-10-4" engine in their data base. I know that least one Santa Fe Texas engines survived.

Thanks,

Ed

The NRHS newsletter had a FANTASTIC engineering treatise on 2-10-4's about a year ago - I learned most of what I know from that article, and it explained to me as well as anything why this has happened to 643. It was online on their website in PDF format at that time.

In 1995 there was a failed effort to bring her to Steamtown. I don't know all of the details and they are not relevant right now but I still think the big girl would have gotten to stretch her legs up there. Think about the facts:

25MPH would be fast enough
The DLW mainline is as heavy duty as they get
Her type is not represented in the collection

You never know what the future holds. Looking at preservation in terms of forever as long as she is save anything can happen.

Going thru some old Railroad magazines yesterday, and there are photos of the 604 and 643 on Page 11 of the January, 1976 issue. The caption expressed surprise at that time that three steam locomotives of various wheel arrangements, were stored at one location for some time. The caption also notes that the 154 "had so much material stored around her, that you can't take a photo of her".

Those were the days....