Excellent topic. From what was started as a posters admission of possibly being a "shameless plug".

I enjoyed reading all the comments by everyone who is associated with these museums and institutions and their honest appraisals of what may be right or wrong and suggestions of how to deal with it.

I would also just like to remind everyone to be thankful for what you have, and to continually work at it, don't let the grass grow beneath your feet so, to speak. Don't let clannishness, lack of courtesy, neglect, or tribal arguments cloud your sense of judgement. Don't let the people who may abandon and crticize you sidetrack your objectives.

I wish I could speak so fondly of working in a similar situation, but unfortunately I'm from New Jersey.

While we in the industry have the internet to help us with information as we seek it in preservation, I think a printed media that addresses curent preservation topics in a greater length is needed. I'm glad Trains has the column, and more thankful that they do the annual grant awards, but I don't think it's enough. Trains kind of highlights areas, and Classic Trains barely even mentions preservation. People with a passing interest might look at a mag if left out at the tourist depot, but might not even consider using "railway preservation" as a keyword on line.

I will have to take a look at the newest Trains as I let my subscription lapse.....

Smokebox

Well, there was "Locomotive & Railway Preservation" magazine, which I believe was published by Pentrex. Evidently it didn't generate enough interest in light of the magazines you mention, because it is no longer with us.

L&RP magazine, from my understanding, died because it's then publisher, Pentrex, bit the dust. It was originally published by a gentleman named Mark Smith, who am am proud to consider both a friend and mentor. Mark founded the magazine in 1985 and published it into the early 90's when he sold out to Pentrex. Mark sold the magazine reluctantly, not due to a lack of readership, but a lack of advertising revenue. At that time, there were several more RR magazines on the market competing for advertising dollars. Bob, as a former L&RP staffer, maybe you could comment more accurately here than me. L&RP was the ancestor of this site, and did a great deal to promote professionalism in the world of rail preservation. Many of the folks in this forum were loyal readers of L&RP, and I'm sure that they all consider it a strong influence on their attitudes and ideals. It provided the one of the first real outlets for the interchange of ideas in this movement. Thank you, Mark.

How feasible is recreating the L&RP publication? Or buying out space (a spread or two) for L&RP and RYPN material in TRAINS or Classic Trains?

-Kelly Lynch

Reviving L&RP? Chances are slim to none.

L&RP survived on two things: excellent photo/graphics presentation, and as an information exchange for the rail preservation community. Trains, R&R, and CTC Board have largely caught up on the former; the latter is now handled by a medium that wasn't there when L&RP was formed: the Internet.

We are also a very niche market. There is simply nothing to advertise to us, and we are still so out of touch with each other that there is no single online database of preserved railroad rolling stock or museums. We shouldn't have to ask each other on this forum where to find some reefers or boxcars. I should be able to figure out who has a GE 44-tonner or Baldwin shop manual I can borrow to photocopy, or who has a locomotive wheel lathe, or whether the PRRT&HS has station plans. Not yet, I can't.

The only way I see a "dead trees" revival of any of the heart of L&RP in the Internet era would be for a national enthusiast group (either the NRHS or the R&LHS) or one of the national magazines to dedicate more space, money, and/or effort to the topic. Both Trains and R&R now have regular preservation columns (and I just contributed to an upcoming one), but it would probably be better for Classic Trains or the NRHS Bulletin to dedicate a section of space per issue to the topic, a la L&RP's "how-to" and current-events articles.

The point that is being missed here is that it doesn't matter how many articles are published in magazines that only the choir reads - if the general public isn't getting the sermon. Those of us seriously involved have contact lists and attend ARM and TRAIN for the swapping of relevant technical information, we don't rely on railfan mags for that. By the time the articles reach the news stands, the need will have been filled several times over.

Frankly, the guys with a bunch of cameras who never buy a ticket or a gift shop item don't concern me at all, and I don't care about further enlightening them. They don't contribute in any meaningful way. If Jim is working TRAINS away from a niche Modern Photography clone, great.

Not to disparage TRAINS mag and the good work Jim is putting into it - but we need to be more concerned about widening our audience contacts in more general publications first.

L&RP was a wonderful step in the evolution of the industry - but it couldn't live on a narrow market basis. This site can. I like to think we are reinventing it, or at least its spirit, here.

dave

Just a little point of clarification--we at RyPN don't want to anyone to be under the misimpression that we are in any way the legal successor of L&RP, or that we have any ownership in that brand. That brand and all its contents was and is the property of Pentrex. Bob Yarger was an editor at L&RP and he is the founding editor of this site, but there is no other legal or corporate relationship between the two, nor do we claim such. Sorry to beat this dead horse; thanks for your indulgence.

As to a purely spiritual influence--you betchya. This site was founded because Hume and Bob had a bad case of L&RP withdrawl, and I started helping them a little while later for exactly the same reason. I hope Mark is proud of RyPN and knows how much we honor what he did.

I understand that we will likely never see a L&RP style mag again here in the USA. What I would like to see is more articles instead of "breifs" on preservation in Trains and/or Classic Trains magazines. I don't understand why Classic Trains can have two page articles on the models of trains featured in the magazine, but just a "one-liner" on a piece that currently still exists. IMO, as a companion to the "Models of the Super Chief", that usually follows a story about the Super Chief, how about "where are they now", or better yet "help revive a piece of the Super Chief" with a feature on a current non-profit restoration, followed with a way to contact for donations. Yes, trying to cordinate what will likely be three different authors to do one series would be an effort, but so far Kalambach has done it with two. The "historian" is contributing, the "train collector" is contributing, are there any preservationist contributing?

Smokebox

The Association of Railway Museums publishes Railway Museum Quarterly. The ARM site states "Each quarter, RMQ highlights major projects at member museums and features articles of interest to railway museums."

Your Museum can (and should) join ARM and individuals can be affiliate members. Go to http://www.railwaymuseums.org/ and follow the prompts.

Marshall McLuhan had it right.

Scott is right. Any company that misses an earnings estimate BY a penny gets hammered on Wall Street and everything they do has to somehow contribute to the bottom line or serve to enhance the public image. Lets not forget one screw up is a multimillion dollar lawsuit.

The stockholders didn't contribute capital for pleasant but dubious value/potentiallly high risk/disruptive steam operations.

That having been said I believe UP and CP are great organizations to maintain an operating legacy fleet.

My two-cents worth on some comments made here and elsewhere:
Public complaints about smoke, noise, and congestion have been a constant since the beginning of railroading. A lot of infrastructure exists today because the public or it's governments demanded it to ease those problems. Anyone running a railroad should expect to have to deal with it whether the equipment is modern or antique.
On the "greying of the hobby", I know three year old kids who are already fascinated with trains. Thousands of kids go to see "Thomas", ride Amtrak, or just watch trains roll through their town. But I don't think most people are going to join any sort of railroad club until a bit later in life, maybe thirty-forty years old ( the period when you stop caring what your friends and relatives think of your hobbies). There may never be a lot of under twenty-five year old volunteers, but that doesn't mean they aren't out there watching trains.
The rail industry may have shunned publicity in the past, but thanks to increased traffic and inevitable increased accidents, the Amtrak squabbles, CSX vs. DC, etc. the industry is all over the front pages now. Most of it is negative publicity, but the public is also getting a lesson on how economically important the railroads are.
Finally, for those people who run down Class 1's and even shortlines because they didn't do this or that for the railfan/preservation community, I'm pretty sure there is no industry on earth that spends more of it's resources on the preservation of it's history than the railroads do. And there have been many many fan excursions over the years, most of which did not earn the hosting railroad a dime.
And to Jim Wrinn: the March "That 70's Issue!" was excellent.

Let's be honest Erik --- WE ALL had L&RP withdrawl. I make no bones by saying it is and was one of the chief influences in my choice to go into museum work --- and thanks to it, and its reality-based commentary about what it takes to work within this field -- I didn't go in with bliders on. There's been many times in this tough post 911 period I've reread back issues to remind me why I'm doing this. They never cease to pick me up.

I've never have had the pleasure or chance to meet Mark --- only a letter I received when I ordered some bound copies he still had after the magazine folded --- but I can thank him (and Bob, and Hume) for what it did for me, who was but a youngster when I started reading --- and was finishing up a Master's Degree in Transportation History by the time it folded under Pentrex. (and no: Vintage Rails is NOT the same)

As far as I am concerned, I can never thank Mark enough for creating a forum which educated me (and I suspect many other posters here; kind of figured Erik was among them -- now I know) about what would become a profession AND a passion; one by the grace of god I can hope to stay in as long as possible.

TJ

After reading an article forwarded to me by my sister I think we should all take a look at TVRM when it comes to attracting younger volunteers. The article centers around a 16 year old who is working to qualify as a conductor. In the article Steve Freer says the museum has about 100 volunteers. Twenty five of these volunteers could be considered hard core. Of the 25 perhaps 10 are teenagers. As a formeer teen railroader I can appreciate numbers like those. TVRM is obviously doing something right on this front.

John Bohon