I've been reading a book about a little-known shortline which ran in southwestern Virginia-the Marion and Rye Valley. One page of the book shows a photograph captioned "in the late twenties, the railroad borrowed a 'Malley' type locomotive from the Pennsylvania Railroad. It proved to be powerful but the boiler was too long for the railroad's sharp curves. No. 9513 is shown pulling into Troutdale".

I can't make out the engine number, markings, or wheel arrangement. It also seems a bit odd to me that a Class 1 railroad not physically connected with a shortline would "loan" it a locomotive, let alone an articulated (having just hiked some of the roadbed this weekend, I can attest that something bigger than a 2-8-0 would have trouble here). I also have trouble believing that the Pennsy had a steam locomotive numbered 9513. Lastly, I was not aware of Pennsy having articulateds at all (the Duplexes, etc were rigid-frame, as another reader pointed out).

For starters, can anyone tell me what type of steamer Pennsy "9513" was? Any other info?

Thanks!

John,

I have an old "Trains and Travel" Magazine that highlights developments in Pennsy power.

The PA borrowed an articulated (a Y6?--I'll check) from the Norfolk and Western for use. (And if it was only one, I'm wondering why they borrowed the articulated from N&W only to let someone else borrow it...)

I'll get home from work in a few hours and send you a scan of the page and post it here and verify the type and number shown in the magazine unless someone else has the knowledge closer at hand.

-Kelly

I could not find a 9513 in "Keystone Steam and Electric".

However,
Pennsy did have articulates - not many.

From "Pennsy Power" and "Keystone Steam and Electric".

CC1 - 3397 0-8-8-0 articulated

CC2 - 10 locomotives 0-8-8-0 articulated 7250, 7332, 7335, 7649, 7693, 8158, 8183, 9357, 9358, 9359

HC1s - 3700 2-8-8-0 articulated

HH1s - 3396 2-8-8-2 articulated

HH1 - 373, 374, 375, 376, 377, 378 2-8-8-2 ex-N&W

Doug vV

There were CC-2's in the #9350's. That's the highest number PRR articulated I can come up with.

The Marion & Rye Valley was torn out in 1934, which rules out the Y6b since it wasn't built yet.

Interesting...

Rob

The aforementioned book "Pennsy Power" was being reviewed in the October, 1962 edition of TRAINS mentioned earlier (my bad, it wasn't Trains and Travel, but the Trains magazine with 765 as the cover girl.)

From the interesting article entitled "Exceptions to Standarization," there lies a wealth of photos of K-4 variations with 12 wheel tenders, elephant ears and misplaced headlights, and welded driving wheel centers. The article also mentions other loco types (0-6-0s and such) that were strange birds on the Keystone.

On the borrowed Norfolk and Western Y-3, the caption reads:

"Pennsy had got its fill of articulateds before the depression, but in power-short 1943 the system acquired an N&W Y-3, classified her HH1, affixed a keystone and number plate, and sent her to work on the Middle and Columbus Division."

The Y-3's number is 373.

-Kelly

The number is a direct quote from the book, for whatever that's worth. I hiked part of the roadbed with Ben Blevins this past Friday-he contributed a bit to the book (author is Gary Price).

Kelly-thanks for the offer! I'll look for the post here-whenever you get time. This is an interesting topic...

John, the info from the magazine is up three posts. I can scan the page(s) for you if you'd like. I thought I could place the image within the post, but it has be hosted elsewhere (or maybe I'm unawares of another way...)

Email me and I'll be happy to send you the scan. The same goes for anyone else who's interested. I guess if you pick up "Pennsy Power," more information is certainly found in it's pages.

-Kelly

Sorry, I misunderstood-thanks for the info!

At this point I don't believe what the book is saying is accurate (about a Pennsy articulated being loaned to a struggling short line in southwest VA). However, the book does show a long-boilered something, alledgedly in Troutdale VA. Now, why a shortline would borrow an articulated, from a non-connecting railroad, knowing their own curves and switchbacks would probably be too much for said articulated, is tough to understand-but railroads have made mistakes before (read the history about the Pittsburg Shawmut and Northern to get a litany of mistakes). However, from what I've seen of the switchbacks, it looks like they could hold a 2-8-0 and about 5-6 cars. So-if the typical freight is under 10 cars, and this line had money problems, why the articulated?

PRR controlled the N&W during this time period, didn't they?

Maybe "Pennsylvania 9513" is actually N&W Z1a 1395?

JAC

John, I would tend to agree with you. Marion & Rye Valley did own at least one ex-N&W locomotive, former class "H" 4-6-0 number 103, built by Grant in 1883.

Could this be a compound (high preasure/low pressure cylinders) locomotive rather than an articulated?

Mallet generally refers to this double use of steam, not to an articulated (many but not all of which had one high presure engine and one low preasure engine)

For 70 plus years I've been under the impression that the term "mallet" refered to a steam locomotive with two engines, one with high pressure cylinders and one with low pressure cylinders.
Steam was used first in the high pressure engine and then in the low pressure engine. A Frenchman (I believe) "Anatole Mallet" had a patent on the system. These engines (and there were a lot of them at one time) were refered to as Malleys. Off hand, I can think of only two other typres of coumpounds that were used to any extent in the U.S. They were the Vauclain coumpound which had the high and low pressures in tandem and driving the same crosshead and the cross coumpound which had a high pressure cylinder on one side and the low pressure cylinder on the other.
I've never heard the term "Mallet" used to describe anything but a coumpound locomotive with two engines.
Many times the term was applied to simple articulated engines, but that was in error. The N&W Y-'s were mallets, the DM&IR yellowstones were simple, for example

Technically, a Mallet is a compound locomotive; the steam is used first in the rear cylinders, then in the larger front cylinders, then exhausted.

On the PRR, I believe all the articulateds were Mallet compounds, except the HC1s.

On the Reading, the N-1-s-a 2-8-8-2's began as compounds. Some were simpled, receiving 4 equal cylinders all getting full boiler pressure. All were called "Malleys" however they used the steam.

Going back to the original point of this thread, it is unlikely a Virginia shortline got a PRR articulated. There weren't that many. On the other hand, N&W did peddle its older steamers to shortlines, in particular the 2-6-6-2's as they were bumped by older 2-8-8-2's which had in turn been bumped off the through trains.

According to Bill Edson's exhaustive PRR roster book "Pennsy Steam and Electric," PRR never owned a steam locomotive with that road number -- a gap existed between 9455 (H-class 2-8-0) and 9530 (G-class ex-GR&I 4-6-0). The first PRR locomotives to carry the numbers between 9456 and 9529 were diesels -- Erie-Builts, C-Liners, and EMD F3s.

Dan Cupper
Harrisburg, Pa.