Does anybody know anything about a 1898 Barney and Smith sleeper currently stored in Traverse City, Michigan? Its history? Condition? Any pictures?

It was deaccessioned by the Henry Ford Museum around 1998/ 99, and originally came with some other ex-Detroit & Mackinac equipment to the Ford in the late 1970's. Much of this equipment (including a BEAUTIFUL ex D&M Baggage car) was deaccessioned and sold off over the past few years; I will withhold further commentary in lew of the old adage "if you can't say something nice don't say anything."

While at "The Ford" the car was pristine -- all its interior was still there, and was in very good shape mechanically (for its age). After sitting outisde five years on a trailer, with little or no maintenace, its unknown to me now. I have understood from pretty reliable sources that part of the interior may have been removed/ destroyed, and that it still sits on the same (very INADEQUATE) trailer that it was moved from "The Ford" on. Incidentally, both the Steam Railroading Institute and the Port Huron Museum (yes, that us) have been contacted about the car --- not sure on SRI, but we are currently unable to fund that kind of resto.

If you want further info, I would suggest contacting Matt Foland at SRI, who used to work at Henry Ford, and knows a good deal about the car.

Also, here is a 2001 news article which details the failed attempt by Mr. Bob Carr and other (owner of the car at that time; never met the man) to start a tourist operation out of Traverse City. Supposedly Carr once owned over 15 pieces of historic equipment, scattered throughout the city --- I do know some of it, including an ex- Ann Arbor wooden caboose --- has been up for sale with Barhardt for some time.

http://www.gtherald.com/herald/2000/12train.htm

T.J. Gaffney

BTW Bob Car is now living in Santa Cruz Ca. and using the old adage I will say no more, but his phone number is (800) 987-8810. I work at Roaring Camp and have seen him, and he likes to talk about that car to us.

Does anybody have a roster of what this person owns? It is my understanding about 2 years ago he purchased the ex-Ann Arbor observation car that was last used on their wreck train from the Southern Michigan Railroad Society.

Is anything being done to stabilize this equipment by placing it indoors or at least under a tarp? Is there anything being worked on now?

Many thanks,
Tom

Not to my knowledge --- but this is what I have been able to determine that he owned over time:

The Barney & Smith car
The Ann Arbor Wreck train obs (this is the one that was at Owosso for years; the crane and boom car from this are now at Buckley)
The last Ann Arbor Steam Locomotive Tender, also from this wreck train
At least four, maybe as many as six, AA 40-foot stell boxcars
At least one (maybe two) wooden #2800 series Ann Arbor Cabeese

I believe some of his 40 foots went to the City of Milwaukee, and are now on display on board her --- a couple may also be at Owosso.



Short answer ---- NO. Badly needed, but no. Sadly, like every state except PA, NC, CA, and a couple of others, there is still no Michigan Railroad Museum (at least of equipment, anyway), so things like this, the C&O Snowplow in Manistee, the ex-GTW parlor cars (later Commuters) in Oden, the GTW auto cars in Onaway, the AA equipment in Traverse City, the outside braced MCRR/ PMRR (still not sure) boxcar off US-23 just across the Michigan border, GTW #5030 in Jackson, EJ&S #2 in East Jordan --- well, you probably know more than I do Tom. The closest things out there are Coopersville & Marne and SRI in Owosso --- both of which have a lot of equipment already, and not enough time or manpower to save it all (not attacking --- just reality.

And sadly --- no as much as I wish we did, we don't have the space (heck, we don't even own track) either.

TJ Gaffney

Thanks for that great list TJ. Does anyone here know if he sold FEC 152 to the group in Colorado, or just leased it?

Tom Cornillie

Tom-
Its FEC #148 --- and as far as I know, it was sold. The Barney & Smith car is part of the package, and the new owner's are not interested in moving it to Colorado with the locomotive, from what I understand.

TJ

I'm not exactly sure what the ownership status of the 148 was - they were getting money from a man (a doctor) in Colorado for its restoration, which needs work on the magnitude of what the K4 in Steamtown is currently getting on both the engine and the tender.

Everything done on this equipment in Traverse City was a little murky in terms of money, future plans, place to run it, etc.

Chris J.

In your post you lament there is no Michigan Railroad Museum. The clear implication is that this might be a site getting public support money if it existed. The vast number of similarly named Museums are just plain non profits with no funding or connection to state gov't.

That is the way it is in Union at IRM. No money from the state to keep operating but no politicos telling you what to do either. But we continue to have visitors which are FIRMLY convinced we are a state funded Museum.
In many cases it is like the street vagrant overheard saying, "If I had some eggs I would fry up some ham and eggs, if I had some ham." Lots of stuff saved, lots of work to be done, and lots of chances to get ever more. Tough decisions but maybe we all need to take a lesson from TJ who seems to be able to say NO.

Even if you are getting public money, and it is working ok, that is often a will o the wisp and can disappear mighty quick when next years budget gets cut. Witness the mighty plans at Elkhart which at best are now on hold.

Bob Kutella

I once saw an article in the Traverse City Record Eagle that the steam engine was going to be used to pull a dinner train and that would have a baggage car with a dance floor in it.

Bob H

I had heard that Mr. Carr was also the last owner of record for the four to six ex-C&O and ex-PM boxcars in Ludington.

Would the car shown below be the Barney & Smith car in question? On a morning in May, 2003, I photographed this pulled over alongside the southbound Southfield Freeway in Allen Park (MI) about two miles south of Greenfield Village as I was headed to work.

Didn't have the equipment from the Elanson & Petosky tourist line (SW1 & Stillwell?)

James

A clarifying question-

The ex-Detroit & Mackinac observation car that the Ford Museum sold retained its original Pullman paper-core wheels (among other appointments). While I have never seen detailed information on this car, I presumed it to be a Pullman product. Could the carbody pictured in transit be the Barney & Smith car that has been talked about?

Tom Cornillie

The Stillwell now runs at the annual Buckley, MI festival.

Chris.

No, that doesn't look like it to me --- that may be one of the others sold, but the Barney & Smith I think left WAY before that, like 1998 or so. That car I think is possibly the ex-PRR car Henry Ford had.

The Barney & Smith car I believe was the one with the Paper core wheels.
TJ