Finally, the NS has donated the Mercedes of Steam to the city of Roanoke, Virginia. The question of her living where she belongs has been answered. The donation does come with the condition that O. Winston Link Museum be developed in the N&W Passenger Station. The plan is to put her on display at VMT next to her magnificent sister, The 611. You can read more about it at the NS website linked below.

Norfolk Southern Corporation
newriver400@cs.com

While VMT wasn't exactly where I was hoping to see her end up, I am happy none the less. She is a magnificant machine and if she can't run she should be on display to the public. Well her and 611 will be reunited once again and share their retirement together. Wow, I have not gotten to Roanoke to see 611 since NS retired her, but now I certainly have a reason to! While I will always have a bit of resentment for NS ending the program so abrubtly, I am glad they have found good homes for the 630, 722, and 1218. I sure hope VMT does a good job of cosmetcially restoring the 1218, she needs it from photo's i've seen, and I hope NS will give all the remaining parts to VMT as well, the bell, whistle, headlight, rods, etc....

stiggy_26@juno.com

> While VMT wasn't exactly where I was hoping
> to see her end up, I am happy none the less.
> She is a magnificant machine and if she
> can't run she should be on display to the
> public. Well her and 611 will be reunited
> once again and share their retirement
> together. Wow, I have not gotten to Roanoke
> to see 611 since NS retired her, but now I
> certainly have a reason to! While I will
> always have a bit of resentment for NS
> ending the program so abrubtly, I am glad
> they have found good homes for the 630, 722,
> and 1218. I sure hope VMT does a good job of
> cosmetcially restoring the 1218, she needs
> it from photo's i've seen, and I hope NS
> will give all the remaining parts to VMT as
> well, the bell, whistle, headlight, rods,
> etc....

I am also relieved that the 1218 has found a home. Unfortunately the 1218 will be a static display. I guess there is really nowhere to run her anyway even if by some miracle she was restored back to steam. We were lucky to ride behind her when we did. Don't count on the NS making her whole again - I don't believe they have the appliance parts anymore.


hubbard5004@msn.com

This is a good and bad thing for the steam world. The bad part is, she will most likely be stuffed and mounted in Roanoke, and will never run again. And she will be semi-exposed to the elements, which is just all around not good for her. But, she is out of the hands that first healed, then hurt her. Now, that is what really matters. No more parts can or will be sold off of her, unless the City wants too. Now, all of NS's connection with the steam world are gone, just a simple memory. The last formal act of donation will probably take place later this year. It's really only a matter of time.

Spencer Shops
drummerdude125@yahoo.com

> This is a good and bad thing for the steam
> world. The bad part is, she will most likely
> be stuffed and mounted in Roanoke, and will
> never run again. And she will be
> semi-exposed to the elements, which is just
> all around not good for her. But, she is out
> of the hands that first healed, then hurt
> her. Now, that is what really matters. No
> more parts can or will be sold off of her,
> unless the City wants too. Now, all of NS's
> connection with the steam world are gone,
> just a simple memory. The last formal act of
> donation will probably take place later this
> year. It's really only a matter of time.

If the 1218 is not to run for the immediate future, the museum is the best place for it. They have already demonstrated they can take care of the 611, and I'm sure they will provide the same level of care for the 1218. If the current mindset over running big steam in the East ever changes, it will be a simple matter to get the 1218 (or 611) out of the museum and to one of several places for rehabilitation.

The whistles that were carried on the 611 were personal property of the Claytor family, and were returned to them at the conclusion of the steam program. I can't account for other parts and pieces, but I'm sure that any missing applicances could be located should the engine ever have the opportunity to run again.


yeknod920@aol.com

> I'm
> sure that any missing applicances could be
> located should the engine ever have the
> opportunity to run again.

Even if they aren't available, new parts could always be fabricated.....Personally, if it ever came to a choice between a "restification" (semi-restored, with new better than original parts) and static display, it wouldn't be a very hard choice.

> If the 1218 is not to run for the immediate
> future, the museum is the best place for it.
> They have already demonstrated they can take
> care of the 611, and I'm sure they will
> provide the same level of care for the 1218.

Not to be too negative, but how has VMT "demonstrated they can take care of the 611"? They raised a lot of money, and then built nothing more that a pole barn to cover 611. While it doesn't get rain directly down the stack, it is not really protected from inclement weather. Hiring someone to occasionally shoot a little grease in the fittings or to oil some of the exposed parts to keep the rust at bay would make me feel a little better about the VMT's ability to care for the 611 and the 1218 over the long haul. If nothing is done, one day they might look as threadbare as VMT's collection of rusting diesel locomotives.

Don't get me wrong, I have been to the VMT many times, and will continue to go to Roanoke to see the 611 and the 1218 - I just hope that some better care is taken with the locomotives if anyone actually has a realistic hope of ever seeing them operate again.

> If the current mindset over running big
> steam in the East ever changes, it will be a
> simple matter to get the 1218 (or 611) out
> of the museum and to one of several places
> for rehabilitation.

> The whistles that were carried on the 611
> were personal property of the Claytor
> family, and were returned to them at the
> conclusion of the steam program. I can't
> account for other parts and pieces, but I'm
> sure that any missing applicances could be
> located should the engine ever have the
> opportunity to run again".

As for "parts and pieces", I have a headlight from an A class I will gladly donate to the 1218 as part of a restoration effort . . .


rrguy2147@hotmail.com

To me there is no question where N&W locomotives like 611, 1218 and others belong - in a former N&W roundhouse. As far as I've learned, Williamson, WV is the last one left, complete with rectangular lubritorium. Unfortunately, no one seems to be discussing or exploring that possibility, even though NS has announced further downsizing of facilties.

bobyar2001@yahoo.com

> To me there is no question where N&W
> locomotives like 611, 1218 and others belong
> - in a former N&W roundhouse. As far as
> I've learned, Williamson, WV is the last one
> left, complete with rectangular lubritorium.
> Unfortunately, no one seems to be discussing
> or exploring that possibility, even though
> NS has announced further downsizing of
> facilties.

Nice idea Bob but I doubt there would be many folks visiting Williamson which isn't near a whole lot.

I recently had some of my dad's 8mm film transfered to editable video, and he visited Williamson in early 1960 a month before the end of steam, and has a couple of 0-8-0's moving around, including one on the turntable. I missed the shot of 611 turning there in 1992, and kick myself ever since.

Greg Scholl


Videos
sales@gregschollvideo.com

> To me there is no question where N&W
> locomotives like 611, 1218 and others belong
> - in a former N&W roundhouse. As far as
> I've learned, Williamson, WV is the last one
> left, complete with rectangular lubritorium.
> Unfortunately, no one seems to be discussing
> or exploring that possibility, even though
> NS has announced further downsizing of
> facilties.

If the facility is fully retired, does anyone know the length of the table there? IRM is still looking for one over the magic 110' number!


Kevinmccabe@avenew.com

Are we saving history here or building more Disneylands? It never ceases to amaze me that so few in our field understand the difference between historic sites and tourist attractions. Should we bulldoze the facilities at Chama, Orbisonia or East Ely? All are well off the beaten path for tourists.... We should save such historic sites because history happened there, not because studies show that X number of tourists pass by annually. We live in a very mobile age, in which many persons are searching for real remnants of our heritage. If a historic site has something worth seeing, people will come. Thus, I believe that it is the saving of such relatively-intact historic sites that should be the focus of our collective interest rather than picking their bones clean to build new non-historic facilities where none existed before.


bobyar2001@yahoo.com

VMT should have the opportunity to respond to your criticism, but the last I knew (about 6 weeks ago, they were still moving the 611 enough to keep it lubricated and attending to other lubrication and necessary preservative measures. The possibility of climate controlled storage for the 611 and 1218, although not impossible, is, at the least not very practical. The fact is that water is the biggest enemy, whether rain or snow, and they have done their part in keeping it out. It sure would be nice to see other things covered as well (ala IRM), but there is only so much money to be had, since I am not Bill Gates to endow all museums with money for storage. At TVRM, there is active discussion among some members about finding funding for more covered storage space. But then again, there is also the need restore more coaches and things like the Beloved 4501 and others to service to generate more revenue to build things like sheds or storage buildings. It is a delicate balancing act that all museums face, even ones with Federal and state dollars like Steamtown or California State or Nevada State.

Mike

> Not to be too negative, but how has VMT
> "demonstrated they can take care of the
> 611"? They raised a lot of money, and
> then built nothing more that a pole barn to
> cover 611. While it doesn't get rain
> directly down the stack, it is not really
> protected from inclement weather. Hiring
> someone to occasionally shoot a little
> grease in the fittings or to oil some of the
> exposed parts to keep the rust at bay would
> make me feel a little better about the VMT's
> ability to care for the 611 and the 1218
> over the long haul. If nothing is done, one
> day they might look as threadbare as VMT's
> collection of rusting diesel locomotives.

> Don't get me wrong, I have been to the VMT
> many times, and will continue to go to
> Roanoke to see the 611 and the 1218 - I just
> hope that some better care is taken with the
> locomotives if anyone actually has a
> realistic hope of ever seeing them operate
> again.

> As for "parts and pieces", I have
> a headlight from an A class I will gladly
> donate to the 1218 as part of a restoration
> effort . . .


Tennessee Valley Railroad Museum
newriver400@cs.com

> Are we saving history here or building more
> Disneylands? It never ceases to amaze me
> that so few in our field understand the
> difference between historic sites and
> tourist attractions.

We need both! Tourist attractions to capture the public's attention/imagination and historic sites to retain our common heritage. If preserved sites such as Ely, Jamestown, Orbisonia, Chama etc were the rule instead of the exception, each would lose their appeal.

Our remaining "Disneyland" sites have ongoing challenges of presenting nitty gritty railroad texture to the general public. Instead of criticizing the existance of these various historic railroad themed parks, we should be proactively working together to establish professional appearances, to create outstanding interpretive exhibits and to rationalize equipment rosters.

Any chosen solution whether its preserving an existing historical site, adaptive re-use of the structures, or a new theme park requires tremendous resources, aka time, people and $$$. We, as outsiders, must begrudgingly recognize that local resource realities often eliminate preferred options.

The underline message is that our various local preservation efforts, be it historic or tourist focused, require support. By continually raising the bar in the rail preservation industry, everyone wins!


middleboofam@earthlink.net

> VMT should have the opportunity to respond
> to your criticism, but the last I knew
> (about 6 weeks ago, they were still moving
> the 611 enough to keep it lubricated and
> attending to other lubrication and necessary
> preservative measures.

Well, I am glad to know that. The last time I was there (about 6 months ago) it sure did not look like it had been moved, lubed, etc.

The possibility of
> climate controlled storage for the 611 and
> 1218, although not impossible, is, at the
> least not very practical. The fact is that
> water is the biggest enemy, whether rain or
> snow, and they have done their part in
> keeping it out. It sure would be nice to see
> other things covered as well (ala IRM), but
> there is only so much money to be had, since
> I am not Bill Gates to endow all museums
> with money for storage. At TVRM, there is
> active discussion among some members about
> finding funding for more covered storage
> space. But then again, there is also the
> need restore more coaches and things like
> the Beloved 4501 and others to service to
> generate more revenue to build things like
> sheds or storage buildings. It is a delicate
> balancing act that all museums face, even
> ones with Federal and state dollars like
> Steamtown or California State or Nevada
> State.

This is all true, but remember one thing: VMT doesn't have that same type of balancing act. They have no coaches to restore to generate more revenue - they simply have to preserve what they have. While that may limit their income somewhat in relation to an operating museum, it also limits their expenses. Protecting a collection (or even just selected portions of a collection) from the elements is much cheaper than restoration to operating condition. I would even bet it is cheaper over the long haul than the repetitive cosmetic repairs and restorations exposure to the elements can make necessary.

Jack


rrguy2147@hotmail.com

> Are we saving history here or building more
> Disneylands? It never ceases to amaze me
> that so few in our field understand the
> difference between historic sites and
> tourist attractions.

it is the saving of such
> relatively-intact historic sites that should
> be the focus of our collective interest
> rather than picking their bones clean to
> build new non-historic facilities where none
> existed before.

Well, in the case in point I have no problem with displaying 1218 either at a genuine N&W depot in downtown Roanoke, or at a genuine N&W freight house (VMT), both of them located next to a genuine N&W mainline in the city with which N&W steam is most associated. No Disney anwhere in that in my eyes. Very appropriate locations for the engine in question, perhaps more so than having the engine sit alone and out of context in the shell of a roundhouse.


eledbetter@mail.rypn.org