I just read that CN 5288 is being donated by Steamtown to the folks at TVRM. If this is true,what possible relevance could a CN engine have at TVRM? Certainly not historic relevance. I would like to know if Steamtown contacted any of the Canadian museums about the availability of #5288. By the time most of us heard about it up here it was a done deal. I know of at least two Canadian museums,including the West Coast Railway Heritage Park,that are looking for a CN steam locomotive. Is it possible that Steamtown is not permitted to donate anything to groups outside the US or even to make contact with them. Thier deal with CP 2816 was probably not really a donation,but perhaps a trade.

grantf@apexmail.com

I don't have an answer to the original post, but I'm curious as to why the 5288 was never rebuilt for operation by or at Steamtown? She's a beautiful example of a typical mid-weight 4-6-2, and would have been an attractive piece of operative rolling stock. It seems that Steamtown had a proclivity for it's CP locomotives. The CPR G5 Pacifics were probably a good choice because they were light, all the same basic design, and relatively new locomotives.
Does anyone know anything about the mechanical and boiler condition of the 5288?
BTW, there is a gorgeous CNR Pacific under cover in a park in Moncton, N.B., just aching to be operated. The engine is a credit to the city and the preservation community.


glueck@saturn.caps.maine.edu

The 5288 is a beautiful machine and used to run regularly into the states on the CV and Grand Trunk New England Lines. In fact, it was often turned on the turntable I used to run at St. Albans. While I'm sure TVRM will take good care of it, it certainly doesn't make historic sense to ship it farther south. Unfortunately,this typifies a lot of what we do in preservation, where history and authenticity often seem a low priority. The Boston-Montpelier run of 759 in 1973 was supposed to raise money to restore the 5288, but of course whatever money (if any) was raised had to go to other priorities at Steamtown.

I don't have an answer to the original post,
> but I'm curious as to why the 5288 was never
> rebuilt for operation by or at Steamtown?
> She's a beautiful example of a typical
> mid-weight 4-6-2, and would have been an
> attractive piece of operative rolling stock.
> It seems that Steamtown had a proclivity for
> it's CP locomotives. The CPR G5 Pacifics
> were probably a good choice because they
> were light, all the same basic design, and
> relatively new locomotives.
> Does anyone know anything about the
> mechanical and boiler condition of the 5288?
> BTW, there is a gorgeous CNR Pacific under
> cover in a park in Moncton, N.B., just
> aching to be operated. The engine is a
> credit to the city and the preservation
> community.


bobyar2001@yahoo.com

At the risk of being flamed by Mark again, Tennessee Valley runs a very good and extensive tourist railroad operation as a primary mission and they do it well. They are also interested in historic preservation. It makes sense for them to operate equipment that can be used, altered, and repaired as necessary for the tourist operation rather than use up what in their POV are "artifacts". This locomotive will probably fill a nice need in their operating program, and might free up the Central of Georgia 4-4-0 to come back home (wink wink nudge nudge).

Dave

irondave@bellsouth.net

> 5288 was the protection engine for the Ambassador for quite a while in the 1950s. Yes, she was a regular at St. Albans, and on the CV. And, was approved for US (ICC) service, unlike some of the other Canadian locos. When Nelson Blount bought her, she was stored serviceable in CNR's Turcot (Montreal) roundhouse. During the move to Steamtown, 5288 fell victim to brass thieves, and arrived with missing parts and piping. Probably not a real big deal to rectify at the time, but the CPR 1200s were lighter, and that may be the reason they were placed into service.

Interesting that one of the few Canadian engines with a demonstrated US provenance was not kept by NPS for service.

hpincus@mindspring.com

I agree that TVRR runs a really nice operation. However, I have noticed recently on their brochures and other literature they put out that the word "Museum" is sometimes missing. Does anybody have an idea of what they plan to do with the CNR engine?

wilkidm@hera.wku.edu

> Interesting that one of the few Canadian
> engines with a demonstrated US provenance
> was not kept by NPS for service.
The management of TVRR has always wanted a 4-6-2 for its stable of engines. What I heard is that 5288, which is in good shape as far as its boiler and running gear are concerned, since it was shopped right before being laid up, will be in steam within 12-24 months. TVRM supposedly has traded doing running gear work on a Steamtown engine for the 5288. (TVRM has probably the best and most modern wheel and crank lathes in the country). If you want to see the engine operate often and very soon, then TVRM is the best place it could have gone. The museum operates a first class train several times a day on its line during the summer and pulls trains off site on various excursions to downtown Chattanooga and beyond.

runner@i-55.com

Oh now Dave, I would never flame you! I've just returned from loading the 5288 which I must say went extremely well. When you're working with two government agencies and three railroads, it usually takes a good alignment of the planets to make things happen. But the cooperation of everyone involved (the CP has been tremendous to work with) has just been super. The QTTX car with the 5288 on it and the CP 100 ton flat with the tender should leave Taylor Yard before morning and be in Harrisburg by noon. The NS will then move the consist through Hagerstown, Roanoke, Bristol, Knoxville and into Chattanooga.

I will be putting together a brief that I will ask Hume to post once we have the locomotive unloaded in Chattanooga. I will confirm a couple of points that Tim made. We did indeed obtain the locomotive for wheel work on the 3713 and another locomotive in the future. TVRM also paid all loading, tie down and moving charges. A locomotive of a 4-6-2 wheel arrangement has been long sought by TVRM. Over the past couple of years we consulted with the owners of many 4-6-2's (both individuals and cities/parks) for one we could acquire. When the 5288 was listed as surplus by Steamtown, we submitted our request for consideration. I do not know if other organizations did as well. We still continued to seek out other Pacifics because we thought we were such a longshot to get the 5288.

As for the locomotive, the 5288 was shopped (we do not know the exact class of repair) on November 14, 1957 and stored out of service until retirement in February, 1960. I have the monthly inspection reports to prove it. The arch brick in the firebox still look brand new. Two axles were new in 1957 and the other in 1954. Tires were new in 1955. Unfortunately, 40 plus years of mother nature have taken their toll. The tender is in sad shaped and will require large quantities of work. But the real unknown awaits to be seen when the jacket and lagging are removed.

Why did TVRM want a Canadian Locomotive? I would like to consider this a North American locomotive. The 5288 is a product of the Montreal Works of the American Locomotive Company (the Erecting Card shows she originally had ALCO builder's plates). Steamtown was unable to spend tax dollars on her so it was either send her someplace where she could run again, send her somewhere to sit on static display, or let her continue to rot away. I personally think they made the right decision. There have been two CP G-5 Pacifics in the South for some time now so the precedent has already been set.

I appreciate all the positive comments regarding TVRM and our shop and operations. We have come a long ways and we still have a long way to go.

G. Mark Ray, TVRM
5288 Project Manager



aw90h@cs.com

I believe some work was done by Steamtown at Bellows Falls before being set aside to work on another engine instead, CPR 2317, I think.

The most important question remains to be answered: Will CN 5288 be restored/maintained as CN 5288 just as CP 2317 has been?



http://www.trainweb.org/oldtimetrains
oldtimetrains@rrmail.com

> I believe some work was done by Steamtown at
> Bellows Falls before being set aside to work
> on another engine instead, CPR 2317, I
> think.

> The most important question remains to be
> answered: Will CN 5288 be
> restored/maintained as CN 5288 just as CP
> 2317 has been?

Does it really matter as long as it operates under its own power? In the past, railroads bought and sold locomotives and rolling stock. They certainly put their own name on it! So does it really matter?


steam_rr@yahoo.com

Unfortunately, to many in our field an engine's history doesn't seem to matter, thus enhancing our "big boys with big toys" image. A wild-looking 4-8-4 with a big red racing stripe and the name "Ferroquous" comes to mind as a glaring example, but there are many others.

Does it really matter as long as it operates
> under its own power? In the past, railroads
> bought and sold locomotives and rolling
> stock. They certainly put their own name on
> it! So does it really matter?


bobyar2001@yahoo.com

> Does it really matter as long as it operates
> under its own power? In the past, railroads
> bought and sold locomotives and rolling
> stock. They certainly put their own name on
> it! So does it really matter?

I agree, even if the 5288 does not stay in CN paint, I think the paint job is quite tasteful that the TVRR has had on the 2-8-0 610 since 1996. The engine is black as well as the running board and driving tires with gold/yellow lettering on the locomotive and tender, also considering what all U.S. Army steamers looked like, they did a marvelous job with it asthetically, same goes to the GSMR with their 1702, i'm thankful the new owners painted the driver tires black and eliminated the stripes on the tender.

st82@juno.com

> Oh now Dave, I would never flame you! I've
> just returned from loading the 5288 which I
> must say went extremely well. When you're
> working with two government agencies and
> three railroads, it usually takes a good
> alignment of the planets to make things
> happen. But the cooperation of everyone
> involved (the CP has been tremendous to work
> with) has just been super. The QTTX car with
> the 5288 on it and the CP 100 ton flat with
> the tender should leave Taylor Yard before
> morning and be in Harrisburg by noon. The NS
> will then move the consist through
> Hagerstown, Roanoke, Bristol, Knoxville and
> into Chattanooga.

> I will be putting together a brief that I
> will ask Hume to post once we have the
> locomotive unloaded in Chattanooga. I will
> confirm a couple of points that Tim made. We
> did indeed obtain the locomotive for wheel
> work on the 3713 and another locomotive in
> the future. TVRM also paid all loading, tie
> down and moving charges. A locomotive of a
> 4-6-2 wheel arrangement has been long sought
> by TVRM. Over the past couple of years we
> consulted with the owners of many 4-6-2's
> (both individuals and cities/parks) for one
> we could acquire. When the 5288 was listed
> as surplus by Steamtown, we submitted our
> request for consideration. I do not know if
> other organizations did as well. We still
> continued to seek out other Pacifics because
> we thought we were such a longshot to get
> the 5288.

> As for the locomotive, the 5288 was shopped
> (we do not know the exact class of repair)
> on November 14, 1957 and stored out of
> service until retirement in February, 1960.
> I have the monthly inspection reports to
> prove it. The arch brick in the firebox
> still look brand new. Two axles were new in
> 1957 and the other in 1954. Tires were new
> in 1955. Unfortunately, 40 plus years of
> mother nature have taken their toll. The
> tender is in sad shaped and will require
> large quantities of work. But the real
> unknown awaits to be seen when the jacket
> and lagging are removed.

> Why did TVRM want a Canadian Locomotive? I
> would like to consider this a North American
> locomotive. The 5288 is a product of the
> Montreal Works of the American Locomotive
> Company (the Erecting Card shows she
> originally had ALCO builder's plates).
> Steamtown was unable to spend tax dollars on
> her so it was either send her someplace
> where she could run again, send her
> somewhere to sit on static display, or let
> her continue to rot away. I personally think
> they made the right decision. There have
> been two CP G-5 Pacifics in the South for
> some time now so the precedent has already
> been set.

> I appreciate all the positive comments
> regarding TVRM and our shop and operations.
> We have come a long ways and we still have a
> long way to go.

> G. Mark Ray, TVRM
> 5288 Project Manager

Just so everyone knows, TVRM would not have CN 5288 without the tireless efforts of Mark Ray, who
almost singlehandedly negotiated for and oversaw the preparation and loading of the locomotive for the move to Chattanooga. He was ably assisted by General Foreman George Walker and other TVRM shop personnel.

Thanks from all of us at TVRM. We look forward to seeing 5288 taking a train to Georgia in the near future.

i'm thankful the new
> owners painted the driver tires black and
> eliminated the stripes on the tender.

A true Southern Passenger Lady should have WHITE tires, not black. Now, let's see, an Elesco feedwater heater, some green paint.......


kevingillespie@usa.net

We're up in Canada also, and tried to contact the Steamtown people beginning almost a year ago. Three official letters were couriered to them, in addition to many phone calls, where we were always told that the gentleman was either busy or not avaiable. Not one phone call was ever returned, nor were our letters ever replyed to.
We had simply requested that if any of the Canadian equipment ever became available, that they would let us know and give us the opportunity to make some sort of offer or arrangement. We have both a place to operate the equipment and the facilties to maintain it.
We were somewhat dissapointed when we suddenly heard that all the equipment at Tobyhanna had been spoken for without ever getting any notice, especially after our efforts at trying to let them know we were interested.
I'm not sure what the probelm is, but maybe you're right when you say that they can only release equipment to parties in the US.
I will admit, though, that the TVRM is at least a good place for the locmotive to go. I've met Mark Ray at the TRAIN conventions, and he is a very friendly, dedicated and capable person, and I'm sure the locomotive will enjoy a fine home.

>I just read that CN 5288 is being donated by
> Steamtown to the folks at TVRM. If this is
> true,what possible relevance could a CN
> engine have at TVRM? Certainly not historic
> relevance. I would like to know if Steamtown
> contacted any of the Canadian museums about
> the availability of #5288. By the time most
> of us heard about it up here it was a done
> deal. I know of at least two Canadian
> museums,including the West Coast Railway
> Heritage Park,that are looking for a CN
> steam locomotive. Is it possible that
> Steamtown is not permitted to donate
> anything to groups outside the US or even to
> make contact with them. Thier deal with CP
> 2816 was probably not really a donation,but
> perhaps a trade.