I'm a bit curious on the newspiece on Hagerstown below:http://www.herald-mail.com/?module=displaystory&story_id=113267&format=htmlHaving never been there, are the Hagerstown Railroad Museum and Hagerstown Roundhouse Museum two different entities?

In short, yes.For whatever reasons (and I've heard gossip over the years), the "custodian" of WM 202 and the other railfan/roundhouse groups in Hagerstown have seemingly never seen eye to eye. Much the same reason, supposedly, we haven't seen 202 considered for the Western Md. Scenic RR.

When the city of Hagerstown "sold" the 202 to its current owner (for the sum of $1.00) the engine was not operable. Also, the sale had various conditions attached to it, including some restrictions on its removal from the city park. When the transaction went through, many of us WM fans were hoping it would eventually see at least limited excursion service in the area.The "new" owner's goal was to preserve what had, at the time of the sale, become a rusting hulk in a city park--not unlike many "park" locomotives across the country. He was a "committee of one" trying to preserve a piece of local history that, at the time, was far from the forethought of area residents. The fact that the WM 202 exists at all in 2005 is testimony to the current owner's generosity (he invested a lot of his own time AND money in the project). One should not criticize a citizen who takes, or has taken, the lead in such a project! -- Ray

Hey, I ain't criticizing the chap. Certainly he has seemingly singlehandedly dramatically improved the lot of the 202 and its surroundings, including adding a roof overhead.However, there remains the painfully obvious question as to WHY, in a "railroad" city (ex-B&O, WM, PRR, and N&W) the size of Hagerstown (2000 pop. 36,000) there exists TWO separate-but-equal "railroad museums":One is a static display of one local and distinctive steam locomotive and several modern cabooses in a remote corner of a city park.The other is a collection of artifacts, photos, etc. in a former railroad office building, located near the site of the roundhouse they tried (but failed) to save, with a "dog's breakfast" assortment of rolling stock (including a NYC steamer, two Alco MRS-1's, a Hagerstown & Frederick interurban shell, a WM Baldwin diesel switcher, etc.).(And I'm ignoring for the sake of this discussion the inconveniently-close Western Maryland Ry. Society operation at the Union Bridge depot, the Walkersville Southern RR, the Brunswick [Md.] RR Museum, and the Western Maryland Scenic Railroad......)I showed the Hagerstown article on the WM 202 project opening to our Baltimore NRHS Chapter treasurer/editor, who has been active in the local scene since 1968 or so, and his reaction was along the lines of "wottheheck?" The "202 group" had pulled its achievements right past, and without the knowledge of (or potential contributions from) one of the region's top railfan groups.Although I have talked with some of the principals involved over the years, I have never been able to get any clear sense of exactly why these two preservation factions have never succeeded in getting their acts together. Can these factions be so wrapped up in their own individual trees that they can't see the woods?

I know first-hand that the WMRyHS in Union Bridge has known of the WM 202 project since its inception since the gentleman who became its "owner" made a presentation to the WMRyHS at one of its monthly meetings at the outset years ago. He became a member of WMRyHS and provided updates from time-to-time. This information was reported in the WMRyHS newsletter. If I remember correctly, several WMRyHS society members did help on occasion.As for the location of the locomotive in a remote area of a city park, that area was adjacent to an active rail line at the time the locomotive was donated to the city. Thus, the location was an economical spot to place the locomotive at the time. -- Ray

What park is WM 202 in?

Hagerstown City Park.Useful, huh?It's a large city park, full of the usual picnic pavillions, fountains, etc. The difference, as memory serves, is that one road winds through the park, basically dead-ending at the WM 202 & Company. There are signs directing you to the locomotive throughout the park's thoroughfares, and since the display has been "expanded" to be a "rail museum", I would presume the signage has been improved somewhat.As I recall, I've always found the loco by looking at the enlargement of Hagerstown on state highway maps, and finding the park on that map, then wandering through the tracks towards the nearest railroad main that forms the back border of the park.As Reter says, the loco is in the "back corner" specifically because it's where the railroad was able to just drop it down a temporary ramp. I presume that if this thing had been set up "downtown" or in a more prominent location, there would be no talk of relocating her to WMSR/Cumberland--ease of access is a primary reason for the dreams of seeing 202 in service again.........

Howdy,Neither Hagerstown Railroad "Museum" is in a very good location to draw or handle a crowd.When I met John Long, probably 20 years ago, he was working on his 1st batch (3 or 4) of cabooses on a spur a few hundred yards south of the now former Roundhouse folks. I do know that he had hopes of returning the steamer to operating condition but limited resources and city politics appeared to be his downfall.As I recall, the loco & cabooses (now 8) became the pride, if not joy, of his daughter with the stipulation that they stay put in the Park where they are currently fenced. In 6 or 7 visits to the Park site, I found it open just once. At one time it had no signs or "operating" hours posted, later "operating" hours were posted but they appeared to have no relation to the area actually being "open".I was last in Hagerstown about 8 years ago, before leaving Marietta, OH, in Dec.'98. Are the cabooses still unlettered & not numbered? While a number of folks are in a mood to talk about the situation, I'm certain the contract with the "owner(s?)" is a public document and a copy could be obtained from the city. This would, of course, take a bit more effort on someone's part!Cheers, Roger, chasing parked cabooses & brewpubs

I've belonged to and volunteered with each group and I've been close to both sides of this story. This is a situation that exemplifies the bad side of rail preservation. To be blunt, the heads of each group don't like each other. Both groups have had their upsides and downsides, but will never work together. So, ready or not, here we go: About 20 years ago, the founders of both groups had aspirations of starting a long-overdue rail museum in Hagerstown. Both acted separately from the other. One wanted a museum with 202 as the centerpiece. The other dreamed of saving the WM Roundhouse and turning it into a working museum, ala Spencer. The roundhouse folks founded a NRHS chapter and was "out of the gate" first. Shortly thereafter, the Hagerstown Roundhouse Museum came to be in the old WM office building where it remains today. Proposals were made to get the 202 caretaker on board and place her in the roundhouse, but he would have none of that. You see, CSX still owned the roundhouse, and had just "evicted" 2100 and 614. Regardless of anyone's intentions, it would have been impossible for 202 to move there. As an aside, wouldn't it have been a pretty picture had 202 been in the roundhouse when it was torn down? Anyway, ill will soon became the order of the day and the pi$$ing contest began. Sure, it seems ludicrous that the two groups be in "competition" with each other, but that's what we have here. And before anyone asks,I'm no longer affiliated with either group.

About 35 years ago I met a couple of people who were involved with getting the 202 donated to the city. The city wanted the engine placed at the fairgrounds but that site was not near a railroad. While moving the engine over the local streets may have been possible it was not practical and the deal nearly fell through. Finally someone came up with the site in the city park. Even this site was challenging as the pony truck derailed on the tight curve leading into the display site.The last time I saw the 202 and cabooses 3 years ago nothing was lettered including the engine. As had been the case for probably 10 years the front end of the mainrods hung from the crosshead by chains. Very little of the jewelry was on the locomotive. While John did a good cosmetic restoration of the locomotive he seems to have stopped just short of a final paint job and proper lettering. I hope this is corrected in the future.John Bohon