Dear Ed, If I read correctly there are almost 900 registered RyPN users. I hope you will take this to heart and consider coming back.Thank you for the time you have spent as moderator here.Stephen

Yes Ed I hope you will come back. I had nothing to do with this but I am ashamed of this board for the comments posted here. I do agree that the thread should have just been locked but there was no call for all those nasty comments. Its stuff like that which will turn this page into "other" boards. Just think only a week or two ago we were saying how well taken care of this page was compared to all the others. Well the people who made those comments just destroyed that. I hope that this isn't a sign of things to come. Hey Stephen, have you been to the WW&F lately? Hows the #10 doing? Im really hoping that when I come up it will be running. I've been there 4 times and every time the #10 has been out of service. The last time I was there the weekend BEFORE it was steamed up after its rebuild.-Eric(P.S. Erik I'm sorry if I'm now getting out of line but I had to speech my mind)

Thanks for your time and effort, Ed. Trust me when I say I know EXACTLY how you feel, and think no less of you for it.

First, I have expressed my apology back channel to Mr. Fritz for the unwarranted firestorm which occurred yesterday and I would like to publicly thank him for his efforts here. I hope that we have not lost him as a participant. The comments made which were limited to “I disagree with this action because…” and “Would you please explain your reasoning?” were fair for public discussion. Out of simple courtesy to the gentleman, everything beyond that, including the obviously well intended “you owe an apology” should have been back channel. The comparison to what happened on the Chaski Board was simply absurd.Second, The terms “argument” and “debate” should not be taken as pejorative. Debate is nothing more than two or more people stating differing positions on a particular issue. An argument is simply one of the points made in support of that position. I went to law school in the days when the Socratic Method was still the preferred means of torturing students. One of the advantages is that form of instruction is that you learn not to take disagreement personally. If you do you will not last.Third, I cannot overstate the value of this board as a forum where differing points of view can be expressed and occasionally awkward or unpopular points can be made and similar questions can be answered. Whether you agree with it or not, the historical reason that our courts are an adversarial system is that when there are two differing points of view the best way to find the truth is to take both of them and poke logical holes in them until the truth surfaces, normally somewhere in the middle. Intelligent people (which means virtually everybody on this board) are going to disagree at least some of the time.Ed, Thank you again for your services and I for one shall miss them.GME

I refer readers to the Interchange Guidelines, the first sentence of which is "The Interchange's primary purpose is to facilitate the exchange of information, advice, and suggestions, not to serve as a forum for debate."There is indeed nothing inherently wrong with debate. It is not a perjorative term. But the managers and founders of this forum decided at the beginning that we wanted it to be a place for conversation not for debate. Search for truth through the adversarial process as practiced in moot court and open court is exactly the tone we, your hosts, are not interested in hosting. The tone we want is more a talk among friends in a friends' living room. The adversarial process has many merits. Perhaps there is a place for it in the railroad preservation community. But it will have to take place somewhere other than the Interchange, becuase, it is not the kind of conversation the founders and directors of this site feel is most sustainable and most useful. It is not that one way is right and the other is wrong, but it is the case that your hosts have a clearly articulated preference, and they offer the service to the public on those terms.

Thank you Eric,The point I was trying to get to in my typical lawyerly long-winded way is that we can have those living room discussions where we do not all agree without going for the throat, or taking the fact that these differences exist personally, and that discussing disagreement is a very good way of resolving it. I have probably learned more from the users of this and many other boards by asking a question or making a statement of fact and then reading the responses than I could in the same length of time by any conventional research means and I believe that that fits the spirit of your introductory sentence. There is no reason why those living room discussions cannot be spirited. There is no reason at all for them to be acrimonious. Remember that, even though we all sometimes feel that way, civilization, as we know it, will not end because of a red stripe, ditch lights, or a false cabbage stack.There are somewhat different thresholds of meaning between the common usage of the terms "debate", "argument", and "adversarial" and their use in my line of endeavor. As such I will acknowledge that while they may accurately describe the process here, my use of them in the common vernacular may well have been inappropriate. The second point of the guidelines essentially describes this process in layman’s terms.I have often thought that the commonality of interest makes many of us feel that we are among friends and colleagues on this board even though we have not actually met. It was watching this feeling go out the window yesterday and what it did to a colleague that I found most distressing. I should also point out here that in my view what happened on the Chaski board was unconscionable. It also resulted in the loss of a fine moderator, Brian Wowack, who decided he just would not tolerate the nonsense any longer. Moderators rarely get the credit they deserve until they quit. I am as guilty as anyone of not giving the credit where it is due. Before posting this I took a look at the 2005 patrons list. This year’s revenues are $1,010.00, versus $1,870.00 for last year. I am going to throw something into the pot and I hope that those of you who actually consider this board a resource will do the same. Even if it is only five dollars it is the most concrete way available of showing your appreciation. GME (who would much rather be discussing whether the historically significant artifact which started this (RDG 2100) is moving under steam or with her rods dropped, what cars are going to be used, what opportunities the general pubic will have to see the thing en route, its FRA status and whether it can be in two places at once in August.)

I have not apoligized to Mr. Fritz in private for any offense I may have caused, but I do want to apoligize in public, and thank him for all of his efforts to date.What an excellant idea; I have been meaning to contribute for a long time, and I did just that prior to sending this message. I hope all of the RYPN staff will accept my "peace offering" in the spirit it is intended; and thank you all for your efforts.Once again, it is us that make this board what it is; if you want to see it continue on, then let the RYPN staff know.-James Hefner Hebrews 10:20a Surviving World Steam Project

I didn't participate in that thread, but was reading it...and surprised by the results. I understand the frustration Ed must feel and agree with him as well, and what was seconded by Erik as:There's a lot of other forums on the web, each with a unique focus (right down to Disney theme park operations). The focus of the RYPN interchange is stated above, and recently, it's drifted away from that. Ed was just trying to keep things in focus, and rightfully so.As a longtime (silent) reader, I came to know the RYPN interchange in the past always a place for productive sharing of information and the latest happenings in the industry...not ongoing debates, or a place milling rumors. There's a million other places on the web for this. A good thing to remember the purpose of this forum is to read the articles on RYPN itself, which some part of me tells me some viewers would not even know about should it not be for a link by any of the proprietors or contributors to this site. For them it would just be another board, or a board with articles...not monthly articles with a board along with it (which it is).Ed, I understand your decision if you choose to throw in the towel and can't even begin to imagine what you moderators feel listening to some of the stuff here all the time, but I hope it's not based on this one instance. I've learned to take boards with a grain of salt, but alas, I'm not moderating one and after thinking it over don't want to start one either. I for one hope you will consider changing your decision, and continue to help keep order on this board. But I'll will certainly understand why if you choose to stick with it.Regards,EK