Hello everyone. Richard's thread on August 11(down screen a bit), "Pennsy steam at the torch", re-awakened my interest in the truly final days of steam, that is, when scrapping was happening all over the place. Specifically, I'd like to know the cities where so much of U.S. steam was lost. Just through my reading, and pictures I've seen, it seems that a lot of Pennsy steam was scrapped in Sharpesburg, PA. Many of the NKP Berks lost their lives in Conneaut, Ohio. I know that quite a bit of Illinois Central steam was cut up in Paducah, Kentucky. And from what I can tell, a lot of B&O steam met its demise spread between Warren,Ohio, Benwood,West Virginia, and New Castle,PA. Beyond that, I don't know. A lot of the pictures I've seen just show deadlines of locomotives, which is kind of inconclusive, since they could've been dragged dead somewhere else to be scrapped. I guess notorious scrappers like Northwestern Steel and Wire in Illinois(which city?) and Virginia Scrap Iron and Metal in Roanoke, VA. can be counted as well. What roads did they scrap from, besides IC and N&W, respectively? Where did western roads send their steam to get scrapped? Any info anyone has is welcome. Thanks. Seth

sethajackson@hotmail.com

There was a place west of Cincinnati on the NYC where a lot of steam was scrapped. NYC, and N&W for sure. As a kid I got a couple of B&W shots, including a NYC Mohawk without a smokebox door.
We used to see N&W steam headed west(towed on the local) through Batavia going to this place. Can't remember the name of the scrap yard.

N&W steam was also scrapped near Portsmouth, OHIO as well. I am pretty sure N&W Class J 4-8-4 613 was scrapped there.

There's two more for your list anyway! The Cincinnati spot was well-known, and I know some guys who bought some souvenirs there.

Steamingly,
Greg Scholl

PS...This is sort of a depressing subject isn't it!

Videos
sales@gregschollvideo.com

> PS...This is sort of a depressing subject
> isn't it!

Not really, Greg. The subject is part of teh archaeology of steam and fully worthwhile to research. I would go further and offer that with all due respect to the tons of asbestos lagging that were dumped at these torching sites, any and all of these sites should reveal small artifacts from the dismantling of steam. If I lived close enough to any of these identified places, I would go in search of such items.
I have been to VSIM and recorded the N&W relics stored there.
Luria Brothers in Ohio took down both LIRR and PRR steam. Burlington, NKP, and GTW steam went down in Sterling, Illinois.

Aurora7@juno.com

Was primarily at the end, of all places, Baltimore, Md., though some steam did go to the torch in Spencer, Hayne, Atlanta and other locations on the system. It hasn't been lost that each location has a privately run scrap yard right next door.

May they rest in piece(s). Jim

http://nctrans.org
Wrinnbo@aol.com

> Not really, Greg. The subject is part of teh
> archaeology of steam and fully worthwhile to
> research. I would go further and offer that
> with all due respect to the tons of asbestos
> lagging that were dumped at these torching
> sites, any and all of these sites should
> reveal small artifacts from the dismantling
> of steam. If I lived close enough to any of
> these identified places, I would go in
> search of such items.
> I have been to VSIM and recorded the N&W
> relics stored there.
> Luria Brothers in Ohio took down both LIRR
> and PRR steam. Burlington, NKP, and GTW
> steam went down in Sterling, Illinois.

Geez Richard, you read my mind! That's exactly why I'd like to find out where much of the scrapping took place -- to maybe one day take a trip, and see if any steam artifacts can be found. I collect railroad antiques, and a piece found in one of these graveyards would really be something. Seth


sethajackson@hotmail.com

n/m

sethajackson@hotmail.com

Seth,

If narrow gauge in Oregon is OK, I can tell you where most of the Sumpter Valley Railway was scrapped. Many of the steamers met their fate in the logging community of Bates behind the large sawmill, but when the road was abandoned, most of the surviving locmotives were cut up in the South Baker yards next to the engine house. Also, most of the freight equipment was scrapped on the other side of Baker, but I can't remember the scrapyards name. One of these days I plan to head over to the old scrapping sites with a metal detector and see what I can find.

Thanks, Taylor

thrush@smt-net.com

As a teenager in Chicago in the 50s I can remember seeing several scrap yards full of steam locos on the south and southwest side. In the St. Louis area Granite City and East St. Louis, both in Illinois, also had several yards that cut them up. I believe that Granite City Steel did some of this themselves as well.

Museum of Transportation
rdgoldfede@aol.com

> Geez Richard, you read my mind! That's
> exactly why I'd like to find out where much
> of the scrapping took place

Seth, just be careful, buddy! I did a little I-Net search and have found that quite a few of these places are EPA superfund sites. A great deal of asbestos and oil were carelessly lost during the rush to turn locomotives into girders.
Still, I know that in Ziel's book, "Twilight of Steam", the photos of the Northwestern Steel and Wire yard at Sterling, Ill. shows headlights and other appliances simply cut off and dropped on the ground. My guess is that literally tons of recognizable artifacts got left behind in the soil and asbestos lagging. A knowledgeable person might find some very inviting bits and pieces of the past. I agree that it would be great to go searching, but be careful, break no laws, and don't put yourself in the way of unnecessary health risks.
Has anyone else in the group discovered any interesting railroad artifacts while nosing along a right of way or old yard?



Aurora7@juno.com

Richard,

That's a real interesting idea; it would be neat to see what tidbits you could find lying around. There are bound to be some.

I used to work for the N&W in Portsmouth in the 1980's, and I had a few opportunities to wander around the site of the former roundhouse. On one visit, I found a washout plug cover buried in the dirt, and on another I found a cracked staybolt cap. A pipefitter I knew learned of my interest and brought me a bronze lubricator line fitting he found in the yards one day. So, now I have 3 authentic items from N&W steam locomotives displayed on the wall above my home computer.

There must be a significant amount of just this sort of stuff (and bigger pieces) still lying around in these scrapyards if someone could get access and time to go look.

Good Steaming,
Hugh Odom

> Not really, Greg. The subject is part of teh
> archaeology of steam and fully worthwhile to
> research. I would go further and offer that
> with all due respect to the tons of asbestos
> lagging that were dumped at these torching
> sites, any and all of these sites should
> reveal small artifacts from the dismantling
> of steam. If I lived close enough to any of
> these identified places, I would go in
> search of such items.
> I have been to VSIM and recorded the N&W
> relics stored there.
> Luria Brothers in Ohio took down both LIRR
> and PRR steam. Burlington, NKP, and GTW
> steam went down in Sterling, Illinois.


The Ultimate Steam Page
whodom@awod.com

About 5-6 years ago we took a crew from Golden Gate RR Museum to the S.P. Bayshore Shops site. The site had been graded level except for one building. We had permission from the landowner to do exploratory digging with a backhoe at the site of the old trash pits. The trash pit is reputed to contain lubricators, injectors, and anything else not worth saving or repairing near the end of steam.

One guy operated the backhoe, the rest of us raked through the dug-up pile with pitchforks and shovels. Everything was encrusted with dirt and oil. Any lump found was pulled aside and cleaned later.

We found:
- lots of rusting metal shavings from the machine shop waste stream
- half a bucketfull of bronze steam loco piston rings (too small for 2472's 25" diameter pistons)
- a S.P.-design flange lubricator valve (perfect after cleaning except needed a new steel spring)
- Oily guck, etc.

The bronze and brass items were in excellent condition after cleaning. Cast iron had some corrosion, steel was badly corroded.

This collection is probably the tip of a large iceberg.

There was so much metal debris buried at the site, I wonder if a metal detector would have been usefull for fine detail locating - it might have been overwhelmed by the amount of buried stuff.

- Doug Debs


doug.w.debs@lmco.com

> Where did western roads send
> their steam to get scrapped? Any info anyone
> has is welcome. Thanks. Seth

From what 'locals' have told me (after learning of my interest) is that Geneva Steel (formerly part of U S Steel) here in Orem, UT, scrapped much of UP's steam in the mid- to late 50's.

Heber Valley Railroad
utweyesguy@aol.com

Seth,

Here in the area West Yard is a great place to find stuff. I walk all aound the former tracks and have found a lot of cool stuff, or junk if you ask my wife. Let me know if you go maybe we could meet over there sometime.

Tom

I know from reading that a fair number of the L&N's steam went to scrap in Cincinnati. One such examples were the M-1 class 2-8-4s which were some of the last ones to be scrapped on the system. I would imagine that some of the L&N's steam also went to scrapping operations in Birmingham. Didn't the Southern send some locomotives to Illinois for scrap? It seems as if I have seen a photo of dead 2-8-0s being readied for tow to the final roundhouse in the sky.

wilkidm@wku.edu

> About 5-6 years ago we took a crew from
> Golden Gate RR Museum to the S.P. Bayshore
> Shops site. The site had been graded level
> except for one building. We had permission
> from the landowner to do exploratory digging
> with a backhoe at the site of the old trash
> pits. The trash pit is reputed to contain
> lubricators, injectors, and anything else
> not worth saving or repairing near the end
> of steam.

> One guy operated the backhoe, the rest of us
> raked through the dug-up pile with
> pitchforks and shovels. Everything was
> encrusted with dirt and oil. Any lump found
> was pulled aside and cleaned later.

> We found:
> - lots of rusting metal shavings from the
> machine shop waste stream
> - half a bucketfull of bronze steam loco
> piston rings (too small for 2472's 25"
> diameter pistons)
> - a S.P.-design flange lubricator valve
> (perfect after cleaning except needed a new
> steel spring)
> - Oily guck, etc.

> The bronze and brass items were in excellent
> condition after cleaning. Cast iron had some
> corrosion, steel was badly corroded.

> This collection is probably the tip of a
> large iceberg.

> There was so much metal debris buried at the
> site, I wonder if a metal detector would
> have been usefull for fine detail locating -
> it might have been overwhelmed by the amount
> of buried stuff.

> - Doug Debs

here in Houston,sight of the former SP Hardy Street Shops,that might be an endeavor worth persuing. However,since the UP still owns the now-fenced off facility,chances are slim anyone can go in there and do any digging.

Ther was a rumore for awhile that many parts were buried behind the old boiler shop.....


kbcotton@flash.net