Dave Crosby has posted photos below. Will the locomotive be retained by Steamtown or is it destined for another location? Does anyone know its condition?

shawsinoly@aol.com

> Dave Crosby has posted photos below. Will
> the locomotive be retained by Steamtown or
> is it destined for another location? Does
> anyone know its condition?

It is not to be retained at Steamtown. Persistant rumors have it returning to Canada, with the Canadian Railway Museum in Delson, Que. sometimes mentioned as a potential recipient, but I have not heard any official word from anyone yet.

No ideas as to condition.


eledbetter@rypn.org

> It is not to be retained at Steamtown.
> Persistant rumors have it returning to
> Canada, with the Canadian Railway Museum in
> Delson, Que.

It's not going to Delson. They already have a CPR Jubilee. I've heard from a number of sources it's going to the Canadian Museum of Rail Travel in Cranbrook, British Columbia.

Canadian Museum of Rail Travel
robsterne@hotmail.com

Hello All

I think Bob is right there, on its going to Cranbrook, though nothing official has been released. As far as condition goes, rumor has it that these engines were run pretty hard. On commuter runs they would make quick starts and stops while reaching speeds of 80 to 90 mph in between. So this must have been hell on the running gear. Still, I can't say for sure. Due to the fact that it would be too slippery of an engine for Steamtown both at Vermont and PA, I believe it was never evaluated for service. That and the fact that it is a hand fired engine. They had 300lb psi boilers, are/were there any other hand fired engines with a boiler of that high a rating?

Dave Crosby

bing@epix.net

> Hello All

> I think Bob is right there, on its going to
> Cranbrook, though nothing official has been
> released.

Yes indeed, Cranbrook not Delson. I had my wires crossed, thanks!

eledbetter@mail.rypn.org

Hi Dave,

With all due respect to the slippery nature of #2929's big drivers (and the fact that I am all for repatriation), recent 'net discussions on the number of steam engines to operate AFTER leaving the Steamtown collection (which, of course, is a number quite larger than those that have stayed), I would hope that the ONLY reason #2929 is leaving is that she is NOT a restoration candidate for anyone.

Should she turn out to be yet another engine that operates after leaving Steamtown (as Tobyhanna mate #5288 will be), it could be yet another example of Steamtown's xenophobia and suspect curatorial decision making.

With TVRM so anxious to run CN #5288, one wonders exactly what position the NPS had, with its much publicized lack of steam (note Fathers Day), to deaccess a restorable locomotive with a pedigree of American service?

#2929, for all her fleet feet, could easily find a role at Steamtown if she is a restoration candidiate.

The problem, as many have posted, seems to go much deeper. The #5288 was traded for needed work to the B&M 4-6-2 (as reported on this board), so one might see some advantage, but the broader scope of the problem is why Steamtown, with its fantastic shop and talent base, is not free to do this work itself?

Why have NPS management (probably NOT people at Steamtown) allowed the park to continue in a manner of deterioration and asset-trading just to complete basic work?

Rather than continuing on a path of questionable results, I wonder why the NPS doesn't get out of the tourist train operation business and bid out the steam runs to an independent operator?

Surely, someone with marketing and tourist savvy could triple the amount of people in the seats on the train. That would leave the NPS to restore equipment for static display, and let railroaders manage the railroad operations (even if they leased Steamtown engines, it still might be better).

Obviously, both the highs and lows of Steamtown are complex, and there are some VERY VERY good people working at the park who put thier hearts and brains into their jobs everyday.

Something needs to change dramatically, in both collection interpretation and curatorial policy, and in the operatating department. Add a solid marketing campaign, and Steamtown will rebound.

There is no reason for the Chama's and Durango's of the world to keep charging ahead and for Scranton to not gain traction.

Actually, they did gain traction... the trolley musuem, but that's another story.

Let us hope that something changes the tide at the NPS, at whatever level it is needed, and those good people who have given so much to Steamtown get to do thier thing before more equipment is traded, scrapped, or returned to dust.

My thoughts are with my friends and all the staff at Steamtown as they move through these adjustments. There is a lot of good goint on there. I wish that all the stock at Toby and the recently to-be-scrapped military cars could have been part of it.

God bless,

Rob Davis

> Hello All

> I think Bob is right there, on its going to
> Cranbrook, though nothing official has been
> released. As far as condition goes, rumor
> has it that these engines were run pretty
> hard. On commuter runs they would make quick
> starts and stops while reaching speeds of 80
> to 90 mph in between. So this must have been
> hell on the running gear. Still, I can't say
> for sure. Due to the fact that it would be
> too slippery of an engine for Steamtown both
> at Vermont and PA, I believe it was never
> evaluated for service. That and the fact
> that it is a hand fired engine. They had
> 300lb psi boilers, are/were there any other
> hand fired engines with a boiler of that
> high a rating?

> Dave Crosby


http://www.orgsites.com/mo/beltonrailroad/
Inlinebob@aol.com

Rob;

I just made a visit to Steamtown, my first since it moved from Bellows Falls.

I was impressed. My wife was very impressed. It would have been nice to see more locomotives in shelter, but maybe that will come with time.

I liked seeing the Mikado steam up, and leave the roundhouse; that walkway that they have up there is truly magnificent.

I also like the Canadian locomotives there; and do wish that they would stop giving them all away :-| even though I can understand at least some of the reasoning behind it. (just hope 5288 comes out looking much like she did 40 years ago).

> Should she turn out to be yet another engine
> that operates after leaving Steamtown (as
> Tobyhanna mate #5288 will be), it could be
> yet another example of Steamtown's
> xenophobia and suspect curatorial decision
> making.

Times change. I have been peripherally involved with a Museum up here in Canada that removed locomotives that were historically accurate (for more office space!), but retained "olde-tyme" passenger cars, etc, that are more closely related to Disneyland than history.

The pendulum appears to be swinging back; the museum employees that I have met for the first time, or have re-met after a decade away, are dedicated people with good goals, and are true professionals.

Maybe the same will come true with Steamtown.

> ...so one might see
> some advantage, but the broader scope of the
> problem is why Steamtown, with its fantastic
> shop and talent base, is not free to do this
> work itself?

IMHO, the problem would be money, or lack of it.

Volunteers can be good, but you need a good person of the right personality to get the best out of them. I have recently seen a couple of preserved railroads that have got the best out of at least this volunteer; that is by far not universal, though.

If you turn volunteers off, then they will walk.

I did the "Pacific Tour" of Steamtown, and the NPS ranger/guide did a fantastic job, and appeared to be very interested in his job. When asked by a non-railroader why it was taking so long to get the 2317 back on her feet, he explained the depth of the front truck problem, and what the available manpower was doing. Steamtown appears to need bodies in the back shops.

Anyway, just my impressions; you guys do have a world class facility there.

John Stewart
Ottawa, Canada.

http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/8738/
john.stewart@crc.ca

While I believe that no one knows all of the facts somehow it really boils down to money, and the plain basic realization that the government (all government enterprises) operates in very strange ways. There are some very basic issues that must be defined. How much money is there for basic museum operation and upkeep? How much for rolling stock restoration? How much for locomotive restoration? How much for excursions? The idea to concession out the train operations seems to be very rational, but can it be done under NPS rules? Surely vendors operate lodges,stores,outdoor sport concessions, etc in the Western Parks.

Is there any money in the trains ops after paying for trackage rights, crews, fuel, wear and tear, etc?

Surely an outside operator would look to maximize the potential.Maybe the local freight railroad would want the concession, they seem to be good neighbors.

Steamtown is too significant to be wasted especially in the context of
PA industrial history and the wealth of railroad related historical resources in the State of Pennsylvania.

Is there an outside advisory board? Who sets the agenda? IS it set by realistic people with passion or by a faceless breaucrat in the basement of some DC building. For a moment think of the possibilites of the Ross Rowland engine that is in New Jersey. It is not an unreasonable candidate for an example of operating "BIG TIME" steam. The location is not at all bad, with good demographics,proximity to the NYC MEtro and Phila Metro area.

Somehow the debate must be defined and then some political action organized.

But what we really need are the "FACTS".

v-scarpitti@worldnet.att.net

I belive some evaluation was done in Bellows Falls. the story we got was that it had an extremly thin firebox, coupled to the fact that we ran 6-8 car trains regularly.

Al P.

> Hello All

> I think Bob is right there, on its going to
> Cranbrook, though nothing official has been
> released. As far as condition goes, rumor
> has it that these engines were run pretty
> hard. On commuter runs they would make quick
> starts and stops while reaching speeds of 80
> to 90 mph in between. So this must have been
> hell on the running gear. Still, I can't say
> for sure. Due to the fact that it would be
> too slippery of an engine for Steamtown both
> at Vermont and PA, I believe it was never
> evaluated for service. That and the fact
> that it is a hand fired engine. They had
> 300lb psi boilers, are/were there any other
> hand fired engines with a boiler of that
> high a rating?

> Dave Crosby


alp@cheshire.net

> I belive some evaluation was done in Bellows
> Falls. the story we got was that it had an
> extremly thin firebox, coupled to the fact
> that we ran 6-8 car trains regularly.

> Al P.
the main thing she is going to be preservred,,, no matter were she goes? Nuff said Pat

cherif@mediaone.net