GW:

That was part of the idea behind the P70 rehab I was involved with in 1980, for the Chessie Safety Express. The cars would be able to serve as a pool for excursions east of the Miss Riv. Howard Samelson got some initial funding from Sam Freeman for this; Sam got Ross Rowland involved a few months later (Ross became the owner of the cars at that point), and the 7 cars went to Hagerstown for rework for the Chessie train, after their service (unrehabbed) on a May 1980 NKP 765 TP&W trip. We also had an inquiry to use them in temporary commuter service on the west side of Manhattan during the April 1980 transit strike!!

They had air conditioning and opening windows, tightlock couplers, cast roller bearing trucks. We tried to cover all the possible bases as to what was "acceptable".

Aren't there some "coach pools" used for the mainline trips in England? Seems to ring a bell with me.

Perhaps we ought to consider why the British railroads are amenable to having steam excursions operating on their lines while the US railroads are not enthusiastic?

dave

IMHO, mainline excursions are not the key to a vigorous preservation movement. (Has anybody read the forward to Beebe's Mixed Train Daily lately?) The mentality that foams at trackside and disappears when there is paint to scrape is part of the problem. The public soon tires of three-hour trips and runbys. I watched a lady drop her groceries once when we passed her at 50 per some decades back, but I doubt she's thought much of rail preservation since.

We have all of the ingredients in place in our humble venues. The next step is to chuck the adjustable foamer hats, the lapel pins, the mini-electric lanterns, the endless arguments involving locomotive numbers - most of which I don't even recognize - and create a total immersion experience similar to historical battlefield re-enactment. That's what galvanizes the imagination of the public and what they'll pay to see.

But that isn't easy, because it requires an investment in our human capital. As an example, we started a more exacting dress code at Strasburg, but it is interesting to see how people resist it in a passive-aggressive fashion. Many don't "get" it. And that requires an educational and vision component. Each employee/volunteer will have to buy in to the mission of each organization as if the life of the organization depended on it. How do Plymouth Plantation and Colonial Williamsburg do it? How do the better unit re-enactors do it? We need to find out.

Funding is certainly a part of it. But the human capital side is more critical and important.

Ummm . . . I can't add a word.

Steve, if I wore a hat, I'd doff it in your honor. Well said.

JAC

You want to know what's really scary? Some of the organizations like Plymouth and Colonial Williamsburg that are very rightly held up as models to which we should aspire have problems of their own. Check out this article from the Washington Post:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/12/24/AR2005122400843.html

Visitorship is down at even the best living history museums, and both Old Stourbridge and Colonial Williamsburg are tightening belts and adjusting programs to try to react to the slump.

In my depressive moments I think we are so far behind the curve that we don't even realize that the organizations we aspire to be like are themselves more than a little behind the curve in keeping pace with public perceptions and market competition in the heritage tourism sector.

I've got to agree with you Eric.

A few thoughts ...

I think looking at our museum operations in the context of the community they serve is the smart way to proceed. No tourism-related business can survive without strong local identification and support. Building a local reputation of your organization as a good community citizen is simply smart business.

I think we still have much to learn from the big "living history" museums in terms of Governance, programs, funding and the like. I've seen much lip service in this regard, but we should make an effort to actually learn these things, not promise ourselves that we're going to do them.

I think the downward trend that living history museums are seeing is reflective of a paradigm shift in the concept of "living history". Americans are swimming in opportunities to be entertained and the entertainment aspect of museums will continue to remain in some form. But I think the downturn in attendance may be reflective of the public's desire to become immersed in an experience rather than be passive spectators to one. Look at the historic success of things like "Dude Ranches" and the more recent success of programs like Huntsville's Space Camp, Sea World Experience, and the various "drive a locomotive" programs. Residential "experience camps" may be the coming wave of the future and if they are, I can think of many ancillary benefits for those smart enough to seize the opportunity.

Which brings us to an even more basic question, how often do we actually sit down and consciously decide what we wish to convey to our guests? How often do we actually think through the experience of our customers in a methodical way? Business 101 tells us that no business can long survive being out of touch with its customers. How often do we actually think through a complete customer experience from the moment they see our signs on the highway until the moment the dust of their leaving settles in our parking lots? And how often do we really sit down and think through the decision-making processes that our customers use to decide to come visit us or support us in the first place?

We can think of many reasons not to do these sorts of things, but in my humble opinion, we ignore them at our own peril.


Sincerely,
Glenn

As "railfans," we pride ourselves in knowing all there is to know about a locomotive or an excursion, but members of the public need to know why they should care in the first place.

Many operations around the country "grew up" essentially on the support of 1st and 2nd generation railfans (i.e. railroaders and offspring of railroaders) and the numbers are dwindling, leaving it up to the 3rd generation of rail preservationists to realize that the easiest ways of reaching out to the public (mainline excursions) are now the most difficult to achieve. The 3rd generation is a small gathering of young folk like myself who are, in fact, much closer, I believe, than any group previous because we have essentially flocked to where smoke and cinders existed to work and learn.

Thanks to efforts by groups and societies and museums to hire younger people, they are giving their own years of work some insurance and security. Thanks to Steamtown and the NRHS' Railcamp program many more of these young enthusiasts find each other every summer. In fact, this program has been so successful that I do believe one of the authentic and historical railroad museums in the country is planning to hold their own type of Railcamp. Bringing together those of us with interests and experience can do nothing but help the community as a whole, because suddenly we're not spread out all over the country, we are a collected, concise group of people willing to do what it takes.


Many of us are aware of the pitfalls of organizations that have gone under due to fighting among the ranks and all the politics that can smother an otherwise worthy restoration effort, and the above comment



hits the nail on the head. We have to forgo this type of mucky one-upmanship and realize we only injure the hobby by subjecting it to this sort of treatment. The public already has enough barbs to send our way ("silly train men with their choo choos"), lest we need more. Being quick to critize other organizations or badmouth people within our own because of personal agendas will ruin us.

I was once told by an individual in an organization that my overalls were too dirty to be seen by the public (and this was after a VERY involved amount of time working ALL over a locomotive), and I was then relieved of my duties because I could not supply a brand new pair. However, continuing to work, I got more so many compliments and positive feedback from old railroaders and young families on my "authentic" appereance than I thought possible. Granted, we shouldn't all be ready to jump into coal piles to make ourselves look authentic...But the outfit, coal dust and engine grease in all, made people ask "How'd you get that way? What kind of work have you been doing? What's your position?" It evoked a positive response.

The importance is to place what we do into a context. Even if the BRASS (those in charge) doesn't like the look of a light or a number or a paint job, there has to be a collective reasoning of sorts to determine which paintjob or light or color scheme would suit the better purpose. There has to be flexibility. While those who work the 12,000+ man hours in restoring a locomotive earn the chance to blow the whistle and run the train their way, it is the PUBLIC that DESERVES something worthy of our efforts.

We have to make this sort of thing appealing to people who would otherwise pass it up. We have to capture imaginations, brains, hearts and souls like the locomotives did to those of us when we were younger. We have to refer to history, or we're just a bunch of people with a really old and expensive piece of machinery that eats money. The historical context rivals all other importances, IMHO, because that is where we can really enthrall people. There is a human story behind every rivet.

This sort of technology doesn't make sense to a lot of people if they don't understand what it did, where it's coming from, or what it can do, so you start there and I've found that questions and interest come naturally after that. You use their interest to build on common sense.

I agree with others when I say that this topic is perhaps the finest so far on this board. Let's keep it up.



These people enjoyed the show and expressed their thanks in many ways (both monetarily and in other ways)...and all the beautiful machine had to do was sit there.

Actually the Nevada Northern took locomotive 93 and two coaches to Heber in the winter of 2002, to work with the Heber on their Winter Olympics Program. The cost was about $80,000 and we brought in about $95,000. It was by no means a money maker for us but it gave us international exposure. There was even a color photo in the Wall Street Journal of loco 93 at Ely.

The Heber and the Nevada Northern are working together on winter photo shoots. At the same time we share manpower and equipment. I needed help getting loco 40 back in service after Jack Anderson died. The Heber loaned me some of their people which made finishing 40 possible in time for the second photo shoot last year.

The Heber needed to repair some track. They needed ballast cars, I have ballast cars. I loaned them two cars to help with their project.

It is this give and take that is making both of us stronger. This is not rocket science. Look at it this way. Here is a tourist railroad (Heber) partnering with a railroad museum (the NN). Sure we have different needs, but we can and do work together for the betterment of both of our operations. Imagine if we all did this?

Erik,
First smile, things are not as bad as you think. First off this discussion has been a long time in coming and that in of itself is a very positive sign. And no one has yet to put on flame proof underwear another very positive sign!

I read the Washington Post story. I believe that it does point out some weakness in the current way museums do business. First off, I believe museums need to be reinvented and I would follow the Main Street model.

The real question is relevance. It's like the downtown retail districts. They too got left in the dust. It was only by designing a program that addressed the specific issues of the downtowns that downtowns were able to be saved. The Main Street program is fabulous. It has assisted small town downtowns across the country successfully. A model like this needs to be developed for museums. Before someone argues that not all of the museums are facing the same problems, they are. And no two downtowns are the same, yet the Main Street program is a success, especially for small town downtowns.

I believe there are amazing parallels between the museum industry and small town downtowns. When I was project manager at Historic Downtown Laramie we commissioned a study on what we needed. It wasn't a slick study done by a consultant, but it was undertaken by a marketing class at the University of Wyoming, which is in Laramie. This class came up with a top ten list of why people did not shop the downtown.

This list stocked me and the downtown merchants because we thought we knew what the answers were going to be. The consumer’s thoughts were entirely different from what "we knew." The merchants had thought price, selection and smallness of the stores were the reasons people didn't shop there. The top five reasons why people didn't shop in the downtown were:
1. No access to restrooms;
2. Merchants were not open the hours they had posted on their front door;
3. The hassle of checking out; limited credit card acceptance and having to have ten form of ID's to write a check;
4. Merchants and their staff using the street parking in front of their stores;
5. No benches for people to take a break from shopping.

(Do any of these reason’s sound familiar, such as complaints you might get from some of your visitors?)

These were the top five! Price, selection, and size were the last three and almost given as an after thought.

The other part of the Main Street Program is that it has four components, Organization, Promotion, Design, and Economics. The program teaches that all four need to be implemented and nourished at the same time. One is not more important than the other. How many museums do you know of that concentrate on maybe only one or two of the four and don't even give lip service to or are even aware that there are four components that they should be interested in?

If we really want to put a nickel into me and watch me react, mention price. Where is it written that museums don't need to charge a reasonable price? Look at professional sports, auto racing, and concert tickets; not to mention theme parks. In fact Disney is advertising right now that a family of four can stay in Disneyland for $1,500!?!(and this does not include airfare.) And there're proud of it. Did your parents ever think of spending that much money on vacation when you were growing up? Why do museum's have to hold out their hat in hand and say, "Please sir, just a little more."

We are a strange country. We all shop at Wal*Mart, yet we drive $45,000 cars and live in $200,000 homes, yet we complain about how filling up the gas tank is killing us. Do we all trade in our SUV's and buy a hybrid car? No.

What do parents care about? Their kids. We can take a page from DreamWorks. They make movies that entertain the kids and adults. I've seen almost all of them and I don't have kids living at home. I purchased Monster's Inc on Pay Per View and watched it with my wife. Why can't museums do the same? Entertain the kids and the adults. I think the Museum of Science and Industry does a fabulous job, but how many others do?

If we challenged the youth, parents would get a warm and fuzzy from bringing their kids to a museum and the kids wouldn't think it was a trip to the dentist's office. (Where on another note we should emulate my dentist. Television overhead or music, your choice, with headphones. He uses a gel to numb the inside of the moth before the shot. He is consistently asking if I'm okay and yes, I can have laughing gas, too. He does such a good job, I don't mind going to his office. Now that's customer care. I'm sure he does all of this because a consultant said it would pay off and that there are studies from the ADA to support it. And yes, he is more expensive than the other dentists in town and there is a waiting list to go see him.) Now if a dentist can do this, then why can't a museum? Is there a AAM committee that is working on the drop in attendance?

We need to change our mode of operation. We need to go from educational to challenging. We need to challenge the mind. Recently, I was standing on the platform waiting for 93 to come down to the train. It was a cool day. 93 whistled two short toots. I could see the steam clouds before I heard the sound. I mentioned that to a volunteer standing next to me. The volunteer happened to be a scientist. He said, 'of course, that's the difference between the speed of light and the speed of sound.' 'What?' I said. Then he went on and explained what I had just witnessed and of course it made sense. It was fascinating. Here was a physical law, that was shown to me countless times and I never made the connection. This is only a small example of the direction I think that museums need to go. We don't need to turn into Disneyland, but we can learn from them and dentists.

The short version is that we need to reinvent the museum. I would strongly suggest that we emulate the Main Street model. This is a project that either ARM, TRAIN, ALHFAM (The Association for Living History, Farm and Agricultural Museums, yes there is such an organization) or AAM needs to start. And it would be best if they all came together to work together to solve out mutual challenges.

I leave you with a Chinese Proverb

Tell me, I will forget;
Show me, I may remember;
Involve me, I will understand!

Clever people those Chinese.

DING DING DING!
What I always noticed among the more popular RR locations with the public are that they provide a picturesqe setting and a place people want to be, trains notwithstanding. That is where I feel most fail to measure up. A good trourist operation has to have the following if they want to keep people's interest:
1. A good RR station building, preferrably one at eachplace people get on or off
2. A ride that goes somewhere. Or if it just stops and backs up, tell people what you're doing. Narration is good, but cheesy is just as bad as nothing
3. Keep people in the experience. This goes beyond the "conductor" walking around taking tickets and talking only to the kids. Customer service. It goes beyond moneymaking ventures!
4. Equipment in good condition. Yeah, I know, you can't afford to repaint the obs car and the floor in the vestibules is a little rusted, but hey, it's a non-profit group, we can't do it all, right? New flash: The public doesn't care that you don't have the time/money/manpower. They really don't. I hear people walking back to their cars from riding some tourist operations. I hear a lot of them talking about how dirty and dangerous the equipment looked.

Kelly, thanks for sticking with it.

You're correct, the Nevada Northern Railway Museum and the NHRS will be holding two railcamps in Ely. The first one will be with a twist, it is for adults. It starts Father's Day weekend and it is one week of railroading up close and personal.

The second one is in mid-July and it is for teenagers. This is an expermental program for us. If this program is successful and I have every reason to believe it will be, I want to expand it for 2007.

Folks,

This is an interesting thread. But don't beat yourselves up on things that are in the big leagues.

Colonial Williamsburg foundation is the wealthiest non-profit historic preservation in the US. It is not fair to expect a bunch of weekend volunteers; which is what most of us are to them. They have a paid staff of up to 300 at some times of the year!

In the top tier of railroad museums; the 5 or 6 big guns like the California and Pennsylvania State Railroad museum have their State Park Systems behind them. That means paid staff and increasingly important these days the Tea-21 money.

It took Seashore Trolley Museum three trys to get a TEA grant and the Pennsylvania Museum seems to get some TEA money each year!

I work at a major maritime museum which is funded by the National Parks; we do some wonderful things that use some big bucks.

But your everyday rail or maritime museum can do some great things too. I contine to be impressed by the volunteer Illinois Railway Museum and what they are doing.

For a lift in these dark winter days; read through a few issues of the Railway Museum Quarterly from the Assoc of Railway Museums most of their member organizations are the weekend volunteer variety not the big professional organizations.

Ted Miles