Hello,

I want to first state that I have no steam operating experience and my comments are limited to strictly observation but have I do have a very strong interest in the subject.

Back in the early 90's?? The BM&R ran a special excersion from Reading to Gettysburg on the old Reading branch from Mount Holly Springs to Gettyburg. I was lineside in a few instances that vividly illustrated the point by Rich Melvin said that steam locomotives have horsepower at speed.

The train was heading southbound out of Mount Holly and began to assualt the grade that would reach its summit just north of Peach Glen, PA. I recall the engineer in the 02, on his feet, both hands old the throttle feathering as much power to the rail as possible. The train had a full rake of coaches, maybe 15??? Their track speed limit was very low, perhaps 30 MPH max but was many times in the 15 MPH range. This line is very curvy and hilly. Ultimately, the 02 stalled southbound on the grade and the Gettysburg railroad had to get a diesel and pull it over. At the stall point, the 02 just could not muscle the train over. I don't believe they had an operable booster at that time.

On the return leg of the trip, things got worse. Being prepaired they had the diesel on the point and the 02 was rolling tender first. I was lineside in a little known place called, I believe "Wolf Pit". At this location the line was on a very steep grade and curve combined. When the train started this grade, the skys opened and there as a torrential downpoor. The G-burg diesel sanders were not working well and the 02 was bairly gripping. Her exhaust was deafening, the slipping was unreal. The train finally got moving, as they rounded the curve two crew of G-burg diesel were literally pouring sand on the rails ahead of the train while on the pilot deck! Once the train was rolling the 02 did much better.

For the GPRR, Ross's comments abount needing a booster seem to be right on spot. On the G-burg trip, it would have made all the difference. Trust me, on this trip the 02 had full boiler pressure, you could definitley hear it!!

I remeber the 02 on the BM&R. Her long smokebox helps magnify the exhaust noise. After a station stop at Leesport, under hard acceleration, the 02's exhaust was booming so loud you could almost feel it in your chest. Good memories.

Cheers,

Randy Musselman

You're right Andy that the T-1's(under full boiler pressure) have an exhaust second to none! That's why Rich Melvins comment on the other Tacoma thread is so on target as the exhaust sound of the 2100 in that short video clip is solid evidence that she was operating with far less than full pressure. You're also correct about the booster. I found that it made all the difference when we got into situations where we were asking the engine to give us all she had. Under 15mph(the slower the more so) it was akin to doubling the engines ability to keep 'em moving and particularly so on wet rail. There's zero doubt that 2100 is capable of taking that 6 car train of lightweights plus an aux. tender(wonder why you'd need that much water for a 22 mile r.t.?) up that 3.5% hill all day long if she's got a competent hogger, full pressure, good sanders and washers. So far she hasn't had all those critical items present together. For heavier trains the booster will be mandatory or a dismal will have to be part of the show!
Ross Rowland

Ross,

You may be correct, but on the other hand let's not put too much weight on sound recorded by a consumer grade video cam and then converted to an mp3 file. Who knows how much was lost in translation...

Having read your post a couple of times I think I can add some insight to this particular trip.

First, I was not there so I did not personally witness the trip. I do however have a home made video of the trip from a friend. I also knew Jim Cornell who was the Gettysburg GM at the time and the son of the owner. I ask Jim what happened to the 2102 causing the stall. He said the engineer was afraid to take a run at the hill as Jim had told him to. Considering the condition of the track at the time that is certainly an understandable fear but the engineer was talking to the man who knew the railroad better than anyone else and Jim knew where he could let them run and where to tie them down.

Jim also told me that when the throttle of the T-1 was wide open for the first time the crew told him it was the first time they had ever seen it that far open. In short they were not used to operating the 2102 under the heavy load conditions and on the poor track the engine was encountering on the Gettysburg branch. Without an operating booster it is unlikely this crew had much chance of getting the 2102 over that hill on the rough track. It is pure speculation on my part but this may have been a case where they would have been better off letting Jim run the engine. He was familure with the railroad and knew how to run steam under difficult conditions.

In the days of the Reading Rambles the T-1's handled trains of this size over the Gettysburg Branch fairly often. Those trains were handled by crews that knew what a T-1 was and how to get the most out of it. The engines also had working boosters and were not operated in reverse on the return trip. The track was also in far better condition.

I think what your post points to is the fact that experienced personel are vital to operating under adverse conditions. Knowing the condition of your locomotive, the track, and being familure with the railroad you are operating over plays a big part in the ability of an engine to get over the road. Unfortunately that experience only comes from learning from others and sitting in the engineer and firemans seat and doing the job. The critical thing is to have enough knowlege and experience to keep from hurting anyone while you are gaining experience.

As for the T-1 being best when operating at speed they, like most superpower, make better drag engines than one would expect. Like todays high horsepower six axle diesels they were marketed as being capable of doing whatever was needed to get a train over the road. There are few railroads where you can always operate a locomotive at its ideal operating speed so they must do all things well. Boosters certainly contributed to that ability.

John Bohon

Ross brings about a valid point I have been asking about all along. Why are they dragging around an extra 50 tons or so of water for a 22 mile trip? Do I remmeber correctly that the hill is only a mile or two long and the rest is mostly near level or downgrade? On the surface it seems unnecessary. There has got to be something I am missing.

John Bohon

Mr. Harbison makes an important point. I've only very recently become qualified to turn on and in a very limited fashion operate my computer so I don't know anything about MP? players, video sound quality etc. What I do know something about is what a T-1 sounds like when she's on her knees at 10mph with 240 lbs! That ain't the sound on that video-that much I do know!!
Ross Rowland

As the CMO of the BM&R at that time I was in the cab of the 02 when she stalled on the grade on the Gettysburg trip. The engineer running the 02 was Charlie Kachel, one of the best da** engineers on the planet! He worked for the Reading and knew the T1's like the back of his hand. Charlie got the best out of any locomotive he ran, steam or diesel, he was a true master of the machine, always getting the maximum performance from the locomotive without abusing the locomotive. Unfortunately he was called prematurly to see the big roadforeman in the sky.
I have seen the throttle open wide many times before that trip on the 02, believe me when I tell you it was not open full on that trip, there was not sufficient adhesion at the wheel rail interface account of the rail condition to have it open that far without slipping.
When we stalled I got down out of the cab to check the sanders and was totally taken back by what I saw. The railhead was no more than 1 1/4" wide and had an extremely worn head profile, combine that with the poor tie condition and the railroad was marginal even for 10 MPH with a locomotive as heavy as the 02. It was a good thing we did not take Jim's advice or there would have been a good chance we would derailed. Why do you think the soldout trip was never repeated.
Also, why do you think the diesel and the 02 stalled numerous times on the northbound trip with the Gettysburg engineer leading, even as two of us were walking ahead of the diesel spreading sand from 100 pound bags we had stored in the tool car for just such an occasion.

I breathed a great big sigh of relief when we returned to the high iron of Conrail for the return trip home.

Mike Tillger

John,

Thank you for elaborating on the Gettysburg trip.

I do recall that a rail maintenance truck was closely following the train. I remember discussion about the track being able to withstand the T-1's thrashing.

Just north of the rural grade crossing at Idaville, the southbound 02 stalled, midgrade with it train wrapped around a curve. Tried as they could, the T-1 just slipped repeatedly. On the radio, I remember Sloan Cornell warning them to stop attempting to restart until he could get the diesel to the train. You can imagine the enormous yawing forces that were heaved on the railheads by her trying to launch the train. It is a wonder the rails did not roll over.

This trip was special to me. The house in Idaville where in I was born was not more than 1/2 mile from this crossing. My parents had a slide of my mother holding me as a child with a T-1 approaching in the background in the early sixties.....it could have been the 02 for all I know. I guess that is where it all started for me.

Another note, the location I called Wolf Pit was about 1 mile due south of Gardners where the G-burg pacific lost its crown sheet. It had just assaulted this grade before the incident.

When I was a child, I distinctly remember the Reading running some very large trains southbound on this branch. I remember 3 and 4 units on the point. The Reading may have had bridge traffic through Gettysburg at the the Western Maryland interchange there. After riding the G-burg trains and studying the topography, I am simply amazed the Reading did this. The crews must have has guts to run on this branch.

Good Memories.

Thanks,

Randy Musselman

Mike,

I realize the G-burg trip was a white knuckle ride for you folks. I defintely realized afterwards, it would never happen again, this why it was so unique.

I did have an audio recording of the Wolf Pit event, unfortunately I have not seen it in years.

Charlie was the man. I remember on Pottsville, he left my wife Up in the cab of the 02, she throught this was cool. I'll bet he didn't mind either! He could really make the 02 talk. I remeber watching the 02 and 425 doubleheading on the BM&R from the large grass yard in front of the Glen Gary brick plant. At track speed, the 425 looked like it was being overpowered by the 02. It was simply amazing to watch to steam locomotives that large moving that fast, working together.

My hat is off to those who have the will, dedication and resources to create these spectacles. As the years pass, these events will become more difficult to perform. We need to support them in what way we can.

When Steamtown had their open house, I rode the special midwinter train to benefit the Milwaukee Road 261. This was a very good experience. She is a brute as well!

Thanks,

Randy Musselman

Remember chasing, and riding the original IRON HORSE RAMBLES, the T-1's really put on a loud, and pleasing visual show!

Ed K. ( We were the guys in the 1957 Pontiac yellow convertable with the extra flags flying from the windshield coners.)

They actually had to take water before they ran up the hill, they had used just about all of the water in the main tender. Whether or not they were sucessfully taking water from the canteen appears to be a subject of debate, but I do know for certain the main tender was nearly empty when they got to Freighthouse Square.

I'm not sure why the day's earlier moves required so much water, but they did.

As for the sound, I don't think she was barking as crisply as I recall, but then again it has been a long time since I last heard one in action. OTOH, as I said, I've seen cases where a camcorder simply can't capture the shear intensity of sound.

Mike,

Don't shoot the messenger. I said up front I did not witness the trip and later that any of my conclusions were pure speculation. I was only repeating what I had been told by Jim. The events seem to draw the conclusion that with an experienced crew, no booster, and the poor track conditions you had no chance of getting up that hill. I saw 2101 stall with the Freedom Train under similar conditions entering Hagerstown, MD on the Baltimore line of the WM. Looking at the rail after the stall the head was curve worn to within 1/4 inch of the web and no traction was to be had. A friend of mine who was an assistant roadmaster for the WM said they had scheduled the rail to be replaced two years before but Chessie had cut it from the budget.

Did anyone from R&N look at the track on the GETY before the trip? Perhaps it is the conservative old trackman in me but I would have been very reluctant to put my T-1 on that railroad and had it been my railroad would have never been in favor of having a 4-8-4 with 15 cars of passengers run over my track. I am a firm believer that if anything can possibly go wrong it will.

John Bohon

John,
Sorry if I sounded like I was shooting the messenger, that was not my intent. I do not believe anyone from the BM&R?R&N ever inspected the track in advance of the trip, I think they just took the word of the Gettysburg railroad people that the track was good enough. Fortunately nothing happened on that trip, but it was not repeated.

I believe with good rail and roadbed we would have made that hill successfully.

Mike Tillger