Somewhere along the McCloud River RR in Calfornia, there are the remains of an old self-propelled railcar once used to transport loggers to work. Is this the one, in better days?

http://ulibimage.ucdavis.edu/speccoll/e ... /D-320.jpg

Yes, that's it - aka the "Vinegar Valley Express." See pp. 147-148 of
Bob Hanft's book "Pine Across the Mountain" for further info.

If it's going to be recovered, it needs to be done before the tracks east of McCloud are taken up. Will need brasses--I've proposed making some out of apple wood to bring it in. Well-greased, they should do the trick. The Cat 10 engine is mostly gone now too.
S'
David D.

David, didn't you post some recent photos on RyPN of this carbody in the woods within the last year or two?

Stephen,
Augh, I don't remember if it was me or not. Not certain where I even have my pictures right now--they predate my "digital period." Last time I inspected the car, the roof had been pushed down by snow (we put in some props in hopes of preventing anymore collapse. The car is pretty rough, but then it was built rough too. It could at least be made into a neat stationary display. It really deserves better than rotting in the woods.
S'
David D.

Here is the link to photos of the railcar on a McCloud River website:

http://www.trainweb.org/mccloudrails/Equipment/McCRLCO.html

Wesley

I have always found this car to be particularly interesting. It’s a nice looking home made machine. It appears to be complete enough to be restorable.

Self propelled rail cars seem to offer good economic options for operation, especially in conjunction with other programs on slow days. This car was always a bit sparse for tourist work, but still with all those benches it seems it could be a good school group car.

David, do you know who currently owns it, and are there any realistic plans in the work beyond the too common; “ We should get a group together and do something about it”

Wow, thanks for the links, I'd never seen a picture of the interior when it was in service. It WAS very plain!
We braced the roof back in the late 90's, I can see that someone removed them, and it has gotten worse. Bummer. Still not beyond salvaging for a stationary display!

Hi Randy,
Back when I was involved it was during the Great Western RR Museum (Kepners) days. I'm not certain whether it was the McCloud historical society that was going to take charge of it or Kepners. Our plan was to put in wood "brasses", lay some light rail to the main, and then walk it onto the main during the weekend utilizing hardwood blocking. At the time, the McCloud was willing to drag it in. I have no idea what they would be willing to do nowadays.
It might be possible to put it on a tractor trailer, but I don't know how good the dirt road is into the area now, and that would likely involve a crane and $$$.
I don't know who claims ownership at this time, it might even be the McCloud Railway!

Looks like it's on National Forest land. If the McCloud doesn't own it, the Forest Service would probably consider it a historical artifact. In that
case it might well be illegal to disturb it.

Essentially any artifact over fifty years old is protected under USFS regulations.

There has been some agitation on the list to start some sort of a list of cars which are endangered and “need to be saved.” The editors and moderators have been discussing it both in terms of the technology needed to support it, but also, and probably more importantly the editorial issues related to it.

This tread demonstrates one of the problems with any such list. We have a car nominated for preservation, yet none of us know who owns it. It may be the McCloud RR in which case it may be available. It may be held by either of two preservation groups, (one of whom is an individual with a significant but undeveloped collection) or it may be abandoned in the National Forest and therefore may be protected under law. It’s clear that none of us know if the car is available (or ever may be available.)

If we were hosting such a list, it would take staff time to research each nominee to determine who owned this artifact and whether they were willing to release it to others, and if so via what process. It could turn out that there is a local effort to save the car, and that that groups efforts could be upset by outsiders bombarding the owner with questions. It could turn out the car is undergoing a restoration process and just looks bad now (I don’t believe that is the case here, but it might be for some of the NRLHS passenger cars.)

Greetings:

This is Jeff Moore...I am the owner/operator of the McCloud River site linked to in this thread above.

I have been back into this car many times, most recently in August of last year. Anyone hoping to bring a semi to the car would need to do some road work to get a semi into the site. Right now you can't get anything wider than a small pickup or SUV anywhere near the car. The forest is closing in, especially the manzanita.

As to ownership...I have never seen or heard anything definative as to ownership. The car itself was never owned by the McCloud River Railroad Company- at least not to my knowledge. It was one of the few pieces of equipment owned by the McCloud River Lumber Company. It started life as McCLRCo #52, but was later re-numbered to #63.

The short list of possible owners would be the following:

1. There is a chance that ownership was transferred on paper to the railroad after U.S. Plywood bought the McCRLCo in 1963...some of the other pieces of McCRLCo railroad equipment went to the railroad at that time, but I have never seen a definative list. If so then it could belong to the McCloud Railway Company today, but I doubt this.

2. If it did not go to the railroad, the owner today could logically be the successor company to McCRLCo, which would be International Paper.

3. It could also belong to the financial empire of John Hancock, as they purchased the old McCloud River Lumber Company timberlands from U.S. Plywood shortly after the McCloud sawmill closed in 1979.

4. Chances are very good that it is U.S. Forest Service property, as it does sit on USFS land, at least according to my USFS map. The car itself is somewhere around 80 years old now, and has been sitting at that site for at least the last 50, so my guess is that is qualifies as an archaeological artifact and is therefore protected from being disturbed in any way by the Antiquities Act. Maybe someone should call the USFS office in McCloud to see what they will tell you, if anything.

5. Fred Kepner may have sorted the ownership question out 20 years ago, and he may own it now.

The car itself sits at the site of Camp Kinyon, which operated from around 1948 until 1964. The car had been used in the other permanent logging camps operated by the company- Pondosa, White Horse, and Widow Valley. When Kinyon opened the first logging operations were in a fairly remote and inaccessable area to the south of the McCloud River, and the lumber company brought the car to Kinyon to transport loggers back to that site. Once road access got better the lumber company took the car out of service, but didn't know what to do with it so it sat in Kinyon. Rail operations out of Kinyon lasted until 1961, using the lumber company's GE 70-ton switcher #1. When US Plywood closed the woods camps in 1964 they tore up the tracks around it and left the car there. It is the only standing remnant at Kinyon, as the company bulldozed and/or burned everything else. You can still find a lot of trash, some concrete foundations, and some other building remnants walking around there today.

My personal assessment...the car is too far gone to move it anywhere now, at least not without some major structural stabilization work at the site before it goes anywhere. I have heard some rumors that the Shasta-Cascade Rail Preservation Society is trying to do something with this car, but that could be just rumor. Heritage Junction Museum of McCloud would love to have it, but they lack the resources to move it.

I'd be interested if anyone knows anything more specific.

Jeff Moore
Elko, NV
http://www.trainweb.org/mccloudrails
http://www.trainweb.org/highdesertrails

Good background. I don't know if Fred worked anything out as to ownership. It's proximitiy to the RR track led us to believe it was on the RR's right of way, but it may not be.
I would propose (and it is dangerous for me to do so, as my present job requires 40+ hours each week, and I have two other volunteer projects requiring the rest of my time) but that would be to provide expertise and assistance to the McCloud museum folks to bring the car to a safe place where it can be preserved. Left out in the forest it will be either vandalized beyond saving, or weathered to oblivion.
I suspected the road access was worse than when I last was there. This was the reason we were working out rail recovery. Polishing the axles, and using wood "brasses" with lots of grease should allow slow movement back into "town." If this waits until after the tracks are pulled, revovery will be come nearly impossible.
McCloud has lost so much, it would be criminal for this to be lost too.

David- One would have to do a little bit of tree removal just to get it to the railroad now. I can imagine the paperwork involved with just that!

-Jeff

Yes, it is going to require either
1) A lot of interagency/intergroup co-operation
or
2) Claundestine preservation.