In need of friends at Durand, Michigan:

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/locoPi ... x?id=51192

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPi ... ?id=167501

My goodness! If they can't take better care of her up there, maybe she needs a new home.

Les Beckman (Hoosier Valley Railroad Museum/North Judson, Indiana)

Wouldn't she have been a fine locomotive for the 1225 folks to have concentrated on?! I know that they wanted a smaller locomotive than 1225 and I'm grateful to see the 2-8-0 being returned to service, but what a beauty 5632 could have been. Has anyone ever done an evaluation on this locoomotive to determine the feasibility of steaming her?

Don C.

Don:

I remember reading somewhere that the GTW 5632 was the first locomotive in the scrap line and that is why she ended up in Durand. I agree with you, she sure the heck is a pretty thing. I, for one, would sure like to ride behind her someday! I seem to recall in the story I read about her, that the crew that pulled her out of the siding had a hard time because the trackage had deteriorated so much. Glad they were able to get the job done.

This business of just taking the "most convenient locomotive" when one was donated to some town on line means that the locomotive in the best shape of the ones that were available at the time, was more than likely NOT the one saved. I once told someone who was involved with the maintenance of Illinois Cental 4-8-2 # 2500 down in Centralia, Illinois, that it was nice that the town received the "class engine" of the 55 or so 2500's that were built (actually rebuilt) by the ICRR Shops down in Paducah. He told me that the group with the town actually wanted a 2600 class engine, the last, and probably the best of the IC's 4-8-2's. But the President of the ICRR was actually inclined not to give the town ANYTHING, and more or less told them to take the 2500, the first in the scrap line, or take nothing! They took the 2500.

Les Beckman (Hoosier Valley Railroad Museum/North Judson, Indiana)

There was talk about moving the 5632 and the equipment with it to a spot right across the main line from the Durand depot a few years back, but I don't think anything has ever come of that.

Chris.

I would not be so hasty on this one. A friend of mine from 20 years ago used to take good personal care of the locomotive, got the jacket and asbestos removed (see photo), gave it its last paint job, and always hosted cab tours during Railroad Days in Durand. He would get former enginemen for the cab visits, and would get an air compressor lined up to hook up to the whistle for blowing. Railroad Days is very much a local pride thing, run by former and family of GTW employees, and they are not about to see their "Railroader's Memorial" go anywhere, least bit to that Ann Arbor Railroad town fifteen miles north! Also, there are folks with very long memories in Durand, and they would much rather see it in their park, that to take a chance that the fate that befell 5629 happen to "their" locomotive. Despite the need for a paint job, the proper things have been done to slow down rot, and it does have a complete cab set, something most park locomotives do not have.

Unfortunately, I have fallen out of touch with that friend; he moved on to trying to restore another GTW locomotive, an adventure that did not turn out very well for him personally, but found the locomotive ultimately restored to operation. I suspect he is a bit burned out on locomotive preservation at this time, and also he gained a family to raise!

Steve Zuiderveen

I'm phrasing this as best as possible and as short as possible, for the benefit of those who have never lived in our fair state:

As for #1225's possible involvement ----- it has been discussed in the past, and while it seems a very obvious thing for those that don't understand small town politics in the once-great State of Michigan, lets just say that those in power in Durand don't care to be dictated to from the likes of Shiawasee County/ Greater Owosso/Corunna, and visa-versa.
#1225 has tried to offer help in the past --- it has been rebuffed for reasons I still have yet to understand.

Sometimes good intentions sometimes fall on deaf ears, or worse, ears which choose not to hear becuase of where those that are saying what needs to be said come from.

And yes, there's more to it, and no, its not my place to discuss it. Needless to say, unless someone who is in power in Durand chooses to make it a point of contention, don't expect anything to be done soon. Some civic leaders don't understand that when you market yourself as a railroad town, to the point of calling your local high school's mascot "The Railroaders," that you better dang well make sure your historic equipment reflects your supposed appreciation of your railroad history.

Sadly, its not just Durand, but they open themselves up to this kind of thing by saying that give a care when many don't. I'm sur every state has one of these -- Michigan has a couple, and sadly it speaks to the fact that we seem to be willing to spend millions on automobile preservation (The Henry Ford, the Sloan Museum, the Walter P. Chrysler) both publicly and privately, and next to nothing on rail preservation, at the state level anyway.

We are the only state that I know of that use a County Parks and Rec Department to fund a railroad ---- there still is no state funded rail museum, and I doubt there ever will be; Durand calls itself that, yet Owosso or the Huck or Henry Ford probably have more right to it; and there ya go.

Cases in point: the same problems in Durand could have been said/ can be said for Battle Creek with #6325 (thank goodness that those there realized to see it run, they needed more than they could pull off), Jackson with #5030, Marysville with DTE #203, Traverse City with our D.B. Harrington (before it came to Port Huron) and Nahma with #2. On the bright side, there are also the East Jordan's and Gladstone's of this world, who understand what it takes, and have acted accordingly.

Maybe someday we will come to our senses and come up with a CSRM or a Spencer ---- put the differences aside and just do it. But then again, I doubt I'll live that long.


TJ

Similar story, but with far greater railroad cooperation, at the The Museum of Science and Technolgy, in Ottawa, Canada. The curator responsible for acquisition of the extraordinary railroad collection was interested principally in getting the first of each class. he did well, but in at least one case, a later locomotive was gained and renumbered to meet the bill!

We have talked it out numerous times in here, but in the rush to pack steam locomotives into the scrap yards, any minor derailment or over extending of a switch, was often decided with a cutting torch, leaving the locomotive irrepairably mutilated.

In the case of the LIRR G5's, four where offered to various counties for displays, one was accepted, and another was privately accepted, two were declined. The last two to operate were saved, while the Long Island's last steam locomotive, historically significant in that aspect, was torched.

I might also raise the point that when Jensen's 5629 was destroyed, the judge who permitted it to go through stated that the locomotive was not unique, as others of the same class survived on display. The lesson: One cannot be too cautious when handing over a locomotive for true preservation.

Richard:

I heard that same comment about another locomotive from the same class as GTW # 5629 still surviving, so that 5629 was "not unique." In my case, it was in a letter from the guy who was the Public Relations person at METRA at the time. Of course, GTW # 5632, although similar, is not the same class and has significant differences. The REALLY sad thing is that, according to METRA, the 5629 had to be moved immediately or scrapped because METRA was going to put up a building on the very spot on which she stood. No such building was ever erected! The place simply remains a fenced in storage yard for the commuter line. Which means that, although not the best scenario, the 5629 could have still been sitting there today, intact at least. Surely a black mark on METRA's record.

Les Beckman (HVRM)

Les,
I know where two IC 2600 series tenders are lurking.....one for each of the remaining 2500's. Too bad the IC didn't save one of the 2600's and one of the 2800's series 2-10-2's.

Don C.

Don:

I think I know of the two tenders you are speaking of. Are the numbers 2612 and 2614 by any chance?

I agree that a 2600 and 2800 2-10-2 should have been saved. I often wonder why the C&IM, when buying 2-10-2's as replacements toward the end, didn't pick up some of the IC's "super" 2-10-2's. They really could have done the job on Petersburg (is that the right name?) hill! I also would have liked to see one of the IC's "freight" Pacific's saved, and a "freight" 4-4-2. Both would have made neat tourist sized steam locomotives. The Atlantics were probably long gone before the "tourist train era" started, but I think some of the freight 4-6-2's might still have been around.

Finally, although the IC ran steam real late in the steam era (4-8-2's and 2-10-2's and 0-8-0's were running into 1960), the railroad did not really do a good job in saving steam. (See my earlier post on the 2500 at Centralia, Illinois to see their attitude.)

Les

I can certainly sympathize with you PM Man. You can just subsititue " New Jersey" for Michigan . I realize the realities of many of these "situations" for lack of a better word. I am continually confused by many posters on this board who cannot either "see the forest through the trees" or have a sense of reality of the eternal inside-issues of ANY item whether it be a locomotive, stationary building,or any piece of equipment. I agree that a T-1 would be indicative of an east coast railroad, that an ex FEC Pacific would be right at home in the Gator state. But the sad reality is that almost every piece of equipment has a history into itself, and someone who "may have been" or "currently is" in some kind of control over the item in question. There is no universal "wand" that can be cast to set these items free, albeit someone with endless pockets!

Just reading todays threads, particularly the Mc Cloud River piece, shows almost equal numbers of posts indicating both optimism and pessimism over if and how this piece can (ever) be retrieved.

Thank GOD there are many organizations that do have their act together, and you point out two of them, but for many of us, like you in Michigan, and myself in New Jersey, the time hasn't yet come for anyone to come to their senses, and I too, don't believe that I'll be here to ever see it happen.

I know so well the situation. In the mid-90's we had a real chance to create a world class transportation museum in Liberty State Park in Jersey City literally in the shadow of the Statue of Liberty and the home of the beautifully restored(with about $40 million in State/Federal funds) CRRofNJ terminal with its 15 track Busch trainshed, but no, a faction within the Commission charged with getting the job done selected Phillipsburg,NJ as the "official" site and the whole thing has died an agonizing death.
The reality was(and is) that to successfully raise the $40-50 million it would take to do the job mandates that the task be able to attract substantial corporate sponsorship participation as when the State is cutting back on food stamps and other social programs it's not about to appropriate that kind of money for a choo-choo museum. Being literally in the shadow of Lady Liberty and Ellis Island I believe we had a very good chance of getting that kind of sponsorship interest(think Chrysler sponsoring the highway section, and Carnival Cruise lines the maritime section etc.) as the visibility and thruput(3 million people/year now go to the park to board boats for Ellis and the Statue) justified that kind of money. No one goes to Phillipsburg(or practically no one) to recreate and the chances of garnering serious corporate sponsorship interest for a P'Burg based project were and are non existant.
So there you go. Now all the "stuff" thats been saved(most of it is rather unremarkable anyway) to go into the museum is scattered around the State collecting dust and rust and thats that!
Go figure!!!
Ross Rowland

There is another pacific in Jackson MI. I haven't seen it in person but a coworker shared a photo.

Putting state politics aside, the critical mass of attractions and traffic at Jersey City adds up to prove the old mantra: location, location, location. Even with close proximity to Baltimore's Inner Harbor, I recall that the B&O Museum has struggled to maintain its footing and visibility in the shadow of its larger neighbors down the road. On a much smaller scale, our own operation at National Capital Trolley Museum is some distance from any critical mass, and lacks immediate access to complimentary facilities such as food, and hotel for the rare out of town visitor, etc. I think the lack of those amenities affects our attendance.

I am sure there are exceptions, such as Illinois Railway Museum. They appear to be succeedng in making themselves a destination some distance from Chicago with a massive, well presented collection and offer food and beverage at their diner. But how many years have transpired in the process since their start-up at Union? If you build it...they may come....eventually.

Wesley