At Deep River, Connecticut, before its wild moves to Michigan and Colorado:

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPi ... ?id=161952

Any word on it's restoration in Colorodo? I knew this engine well, when it was still in NJ.

I suspect the work accomplished amounts to just about zero. It was bought ostensibly to eventually operate on the run to Creede, but I note the main person who was working to operate the Creede line is now involved with the new passenger trains running out of Alamosa to LaVeta Pass and Antonito. It's great to dream of steam operating and even better if you have the funds and expertise to make it happen, but given the travails of the 148, it would probably be better off stuffed and mounted as a genuine FEC engine in an indoor museum in Florida. Sometimes we need to stop playing train and do what's best for the long term welfare of the locomotive..

Bob:

And I can suggest the best possible place; the Florida Keys! Many of the bridges that Flagler built for the "Railroad That Went to Sea" still exist, no longer used for U.S. Route 1. Most visitors to the Keys have no idea that is was Flagler's railroad that enabled the road all the way down to Key West to be put in. After the railroad was destroyed by the Hurricane of (193x???), the bridges were used for the two lane road.

One of these still sturdy and well-built bridges could be restored with track. A diesel and a couple of original FEC passenger cars could haul tourists a couple of times a day over a short mile or two segment. A hurricane proof building could house that equipment and the 148. And then on certain days a year, after being cosmetically restored, haul her out for pictures. An authentic Florida East Coast train, on the line that made the road to the Keys possible, and popular. This is one railroad project that SHOULD be done!

Les Beckman (Hoosier Valley Railroad Museum/North Judson, Indiana)

What seems to be forgotten about the 148 is that it had some very extensive running gear work done on it in the mid-1970s, and was not run too much after that. Things like new tires from Germany, all new brake rigging, spring rigging, hub liners, some crosshead work, etc. I forget the number, maybe $125,000 worth, but it was a pretty thorough job. Too bad that the boiler and firebox never got the same treatment, also the tank was a sprinkling can on wheels.

That engine was a nice size, small enough to run on the Black River or M&E, but was capable of handling a decent train out on the main. Cases in point are the Blue Comet trip, run by Mainline Steam, with 9 CNJ heavyweight coaches, and the deadhead move for MLSF's LV trip, taking 8 Stillwells (and two idling Geeps) from Morristown to Bethlehem.

I'm not sure that engine belongs in the Rockies, but I don't think it should be stuffed and mounted, either. I do know that Strasburg looked at it before they purchased the 475. Their plan was to use the existing boiler as a pattern for a new boiler, IIRC. And of course we know, now, how they would have handled the tender issue.

Les has an interesting idea, but I would be leery of all the salt air that any equipment, historic or otherwise, would be exposed to in the Keys. I work with a salt-water process every day, and both the water and salt air just rip things apart.

EDM-

I modify my proposal of a "hurricane proof building" to a "climate controlled hurricane proof building!" Certainly the salt air is a problem, but it occurs in other places besides the Keys. Good maintenance, paint and diligence would be needed. But, it could (and should) still be done!

Les

FEC. 148 did make some fan trips in the 70's. One out of Elizabeth, NJ. to Bay Head, NJ. over the CNJ., and New York & Long Branch.

Ed K.

As an alternate to FEC 148, perhaps sister 4-6-2 # 113 might make a very good alternative for the Keys. For the following reasons, based on Stephen S. Syfrett's info on the ACL 1504 thread:

1. She is currently in pieces at the Gold Coast Railroad Museum thus quite a bit easier to move.

2. Apparently Gold Coast has no plans to restore her.

3. Located right there in Florida (instead of Colorado.)

4. Was for sale in the recent past, so might be considered available.

5. Obviously a genuine Florida East Coast locomotive that, conceivably at least, might well have run on the Key West Extension.

BTW, I never meant to imply that I would be adverse to 148 (or 113 for that matter) being restored to service on such a short tourist type operation. A diesel hauling a couple of passenger cars might be the way to start out, but a genuine FEC oil burning steam locomotive like 113 or 148 might well be something to shoot for. Of course this is all just a pipe dream. I don't see it happening unless someone, or some private or government organization, was willing to committ some bucks.

Les

Les - there hasn't been a railroad on the keys since the 1935 hurricane. No point removing any locomotive further from a useful location than necessary. Key West is one of those places that is fortunate in being far enough away from pretty much anything (but Havana) and a royal pain to get to on an endless series of bridges and causeways that it hasn't been more than half spoiled by tourists yet.

If Miami as a SMSA isn't supporting Gold Coast to the extent of allowing it to thrive, Key West is capable of much less. Come to think of it, apart from the corporate headquarters of American Heritage Railways and a private 0-8-0 project, there isn't any railway preservation besides Gold Coast in South FLA.

I'd have figured a historic trolley line connecting the Biltmore with Coconut Grove and Matheson Hammock by now.....but the last time I visited there, the gullies where I played as a kid, in which troops for the ill-fated Bay of Pigs Invasion trained, had been buried under thousands of yards of crushed rock for condos to be built.

Maybe Miami isn't interested in history? Where's Hiaasen and Buchanan when you need them?

dave

Dave-

Good Lord; I never proposed that thing for Key West! One of the old FEC bridges on the way down, and a small Key where a museum could be set up (with the forementioned building.) Most of these original bridges are abandoned now and used mostly (if at all) as fishing piers. I don't know the actual damages in the 1935 hurricane, but relief trains were sent out after it went through so most of the track (and bridges) probably survived fine.

As for non-support of Gold Coast Railroad Museum in Miami, I can't address that. Certainly a small museum and short train ride would be aimed at visitors to the Keys and not toward the populace of Miami and the southern tip of Florida. I don't see it as a competitor to Gold Coast. I wouldn't expect such a museum/train ride to be another Strasburg, or Union, or Sacramento. Just a way to recognize one of the most amazing engineering feats ever undertaken. It certainly gets short shrift now.

Les Beckman

148 made two trips in 1975, both operated by the Mainline Steam Foundation. The trip in October, with George Hart's 972, was from Bethlehem PA to South Plainfield, NJ, over the LV, with 15 cars. Six weeks later, 148, alone, took 9 CNJs from Raritan (on the CNJ) to Bay Head Junction, at the end of the NY&LB. I was hostler on the 148 the night before both trips.

Before those two trips, 148 was used for a week of promotional runs out of Ridgewood (on the Erie) to Ho-Ho-Kus, operated for the Ridgewood Chamber of Commerce, IIRC. The train was four Stillwells. I rode the deadhead move up from Hoboken, and remember thinking that the tower must have put us through every crossover in the terminal to get to the Erie side. I also remember a certain photographer taking a photo of the full moon, over the 148, with the Manhattan skyline, (and the WTC?) in the background.

Sorry I misunderstood you Les. The idea of relocating 113 to Key West is just patently absurd enough that it might actually be done someday - which does concern me somwhat, but, come to think of it, wouldn't surprise me at all, given 148 now sits on a Colorado mountain.

Actually the relief train didn't get all that far. I recently read a very good history of the 1935 hurricane and its effects on the WPA road builders who were stuck there, primarily due to the arrogance and / or incompetence of the management, who refused to guarantee the FEC payment for the relief train until too late. Once an agreement was finally reached with FEC, and an engine fired up and crew called, the hurricane was already about there. The train went south past some of the work camps, intending to pick up people coming back north, then got stuck in a washout, and was mostly washed off the tracks itself. FEC did what was minimally necessary to salvage the train, then tore up the rails it could find.

When I was a kid you could still see a twisted section of track rising above the water from the causeway, with almost always a pelican using it for a perch.

dave

Dave:

From the little I have read about the 1935 hurricane and the rescue train that was finally dispatched, 4-8-2 # 447 and its tender that was hauling the train, did not turn over, but the cars did. The rail on some of the bridges and on land were washed out, but the FEC did repair the track and was able to go down and retrieve the locomotive. I am not sure how the track faired south of there (I believe the rescue train was derailed near what is now Islamorada) and if FEC rescued its equipment in Key West by rail or by boat. Although the rail on the bridges might have been washed off in places, all of the bridges and concrete viaducts themselves survived.

I don't know where # 113 will end up, but certainly sitting in pieces in Miami is not good.

Les

The train in Key West was retreived sometime later by car ferry. The hurricane didn't go that far South.

Jim:

Thanks for the info. I suspected that that might have been the case.

Les