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 Post subject: That STB filing in Md./Pa. re: Riffin
PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2006 1:25 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 12152
Location: Somewhere east of Prescott, AZ along the old Santa Fe "Prescott & Eastern"
Folks, that damn case in Baltimore County, Md. involving that guy who wanted to re-lay the ex-PRR "Northern Central" line between Cockeysville, Md. and New Freedom, Pa. keeps getting sillier and sillier.

No, this is NOT a joke. April Fool's Day is over!

In perusing the Surface Transportation Board dockets regarding the petitions and counter-petitions, evidence, etc. being presented by James Riffin, Norfolk Southern, and Maryland MTA, Riffin is alleging that, under various technicalities, the sale of the trackage from the area of Baltimore's Penn Station to Cockeysville by Conrail to the MTA was illegal and should be rendered void; that the Penn Central abandonment between Cockeysville and York post-flooding in 1972 was never legally pursued or approved; that the "temporary" discontinuance of freight service on the Cockeysville line during MTA's two-year double-tracking project was illegal............... and hey, I'm only touching on the north end. He has stuff about freight service to Glen Burnie on the old Baltimore & Annapolis as evidence against MTA too!

This is NOT a joke!

Furthermore, Riffin claims that he attempted to have thirteen cars, including two ex-VIA passenger cars, shipped to him in Cockeysville to assert freight service, but that NS basically engaged in a conspiracy to refuse service to him in order to pursue abandonment of service.

I'm not kidding! Look it up! www.stb.dot.gov

In his latest filing to the STB, Riffin is entering into evidence as his "worthiness" and "business interests" in operating the line a contract for purchase of Jack and Sally Showalter's two Canadian Pacific 4-6-2's and ten passenger cars left over from the Virginia Central excursion operations in 1993, as well as a ten-year lease on Ross Rowland's Chessie 614, currently in Port Clinton, Pa.





Okay, I'm kidding about the last two. The Showalter stuff has actually been sold to a new excursion operation on the Delmarva Peninsula. More details on this as soon as I get them.............


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 Post subject: Re: That STB filing in Md./Pa. re: Riffin
PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2006 9:09 am 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 5:11 pm
Posts: 373
I don't want to sound as though I support or lend credence to a story I know little of noting about. I would like to state the following, If you think NS is as pure as the driven snow and would never engage in such actions when they want to abandon a line, I can prove you very WRONG!!!
Hopefully in the next few years, if things work out (it's been over 20 years in the making ) I'll take the time to go into the details, It should be enough for a article (to much for a brief) and present the story with proof.


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 Post subject: Re: That STB filing in Md./Pa. re: Riffin
PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2006 9:23 am 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 8:10 am
Posts: 2499
I know that a couple of posters here seem to have a vested interest in making sure this plan is ridiculed, but as an impartial outside observer I have to say that some of the points of ridicule may be offbase.

If there is anyone who thinks that there haven't been violations of the law somewhere in the transfer of trackage to commuter agencies or squirrely dealings between them and the NS, or a consipiracy of sorts to keep third parties out of commuter agencies and NS's monopoly then you have not been following the efforts to restore passenger service by a thrid party on the lower Boonton line in NJ.

In that case, NS wants to make sure no one ever turns a wheel of freight on the line again, and NJT is dead set against any one else running a commuter train in state.

And yes, that case involes allegations of illegal doings by the big guys.

There are posters around the net who have pet grievances with the Maryland situation and a similar one in NJ. They have wasted no time flogging the efforts online in multiple forums.

I choose to wait and see. If there evidence to back the claims, it should be heard.

I know it is the trend du jour to support government law breaking, but I for one still hope that we have a society that willl look at evidence and persue any wrong doing if it is found. In the MD case, if Mr. Riffin has the evidence, he is doing his duty as an American and an interested business person to persue it.

And if he doesn't have the evidence, then the matter is of inconsequence.


Rob


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 Post subject: Re: That STB filing in Md./Pa. re: Riffin
PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2006 10:07 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 12152
Location: Somewhere east of Prescott, AZ along the old Santa Fe "Prescott & Eastern"
Okay, shifting to the serious analysis for a minute:

If indeed there is some skuldulgery going on with this and other such cases on NS and other lines, I will be more than happy to listen objectively to the case(s) in question. I've been made aware of one quite successful shortline operator that is apparently on notice for alleged collusion with the local government agency to handle all their rail operation needs, allegedly without "properly" putting out the contracts for bid by others, and a lawsuit is supposedly either in the works or already in progress.

The problem arises when those that raise these accusations apparently suffer from either a "sour grapes" syndrome (i.e. they believe they should have the opportunity to bid/operate said line) or, in other cases they seem to be card-carrying members of the Tinfoil Hat Brigade, believing everything that goes wrong for them is part of some evil conspiracy.

In the case of Riffin, as I have studied the various STB filings and NS's counter-charges:
*Riffin alleges that he has "business interests" in operating freight on the line and has money to invest, but he is apparently acting as his own attorney because he can't afford one, and the "business" he has is apparently shipping in used track maintenance equipment on flat cars and two coaches for the sake of having "traffic" over which to sue;
*Riffin claims to want to initiate dinner train operation over the line--never mind that, with MTA's operation of light-rail service, the only time such a dinner train could operate more than a mile would be 1-5 AM, OR Riffin would have to have the entire Light Rail Line sale by Conrail in the late 1980s or early 1990s rendered null and void and disrupt transit service to thousands.

Further evidence unearthed by others seems to indicate that Riffin's major motivation for claiming operating rights over the rest of the line from Cockeysville north to the Mason-Dixon Line (never mind the lack of track and the heavily-used bike trail) is/was to claim exemption from environmental restrictions to bulldozer work on property adjacent to his, under the guise of "restriction upon interstate commerce."

I've actually tried to feed this "developing" story to the local media--the Baltimore Sun, the TV stations, the Baltimore City Paper "alternative weekly"--with no real reaction so far. I really and truly don't have any "dog in this fight" except as a local rail historian, and part of me is literally fascinated by the actual process and wrangling, much like watching a TV court drama with surprising twists. But much as many may claim that NS, MTA, etc, isn't following proper procedure, I have to ask, for the millionth time, "is the opposition proposing a viable alternative?" Would the results of the proposed "corrections" be a net benefit or a loss for the community and network, and by whose measure? Are we going to kill off a semi-viable mass transit backbone just because some guy with a lawyer (or not) wants to "play rail baron"?

Much as some of us love the thought of "sticking it to The Man" and triumphing over those "big, evil corporations," I'm not of the group that automatically thinks that every action of a corporation is wrapped in a conspiracy, like many in life apparently think. If faced with the choice between the present scenario and the assumption of freight service by a "half-a**ed" slipshod operator that, say, thinks he can operate "mixed" trains at will with some Alco HH660 or Lima switcher he can't even get parts for, just because he *can*, well............ at least he doesn't get to blow up a steamer........


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 Post subject: Re: That STB filing in Md./Pa. re: Riffin
PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2006 11:07 am 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 5:11 pm
Posts: 373
In my post I was in no way or shape refering to this case. I know nothing about this other than what I've read here. To be honest, I don't care about it. the issues I refer to are dealings with the NS in another state and a whole other rail line. NS went so far as telling the state you won't tell us what we can or can't do, We don't care what you think is good for your state.
I would go into more detail but things are still happening concerning the completeion of our rail corridor. We already own most of it but NS is trying at everyturn to make sure it's not complete!
This isn't about sticking it to anyone or anything.
Sometimes the fact that the big evil's are fighting your plan and won't let you complete it proves your business plan is sound and they don't want the compition. Yes it is alot more than dinner trains and flat cars.


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 Post subject: Re: That STB filing in Md./Pa. re: Riffin
PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2006 1:44 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 12152
Location: Somewhere east of Prescott, AZ along the old Santa Fe "Prescott & Eastern"
If you're going to openly accuse NS or any other railroad of chicanery or non-cooperation without divulging details or even what state is involved (although I suspect I know which case you're referring to), we should probably feel free to disregard your grousings in a similar fashion to anonymous or pseudonymous posts on this board.

The old line that there are three sides to every dispute (one side, the other side, and the facts both sides are ignoring) probably holds sway here.

In my local region, I'm stuck listening to many people grouse openly about how much "better" VRE service is than MARC service is on the same railroad (CSX), and how "evil/incompetent/greedy" CSX is. These complainers conveniently disregard the fact that the Commonwealth of Virginia put millions of money into laying additional tracks over CSX routes between DC and Fredericksburg, a measure Maryland has yet to match in dollars or initiative. As I heard one railroader say of CSX, "Their attitude, and quite rightfully so, is that they already turn over the Camden Line and the Metro Sub [the line to Martinsburg/Frederick] to MARC for several hours each morning and evening, and CSX has more of their own trains to run--and whose railroad IS it, anyway? Let the state cough up for a third track if they want more and better service!"

Yes, this probably has little to do with preservation directly. But as I highlighted in earlier posts, if someone can sue to dispute whether NS and the MTA went by the book on this line in Maryland, imagine if some property owner in NIMBY territory (think New Hope, Durango, Ohio Central, or almost any rail museum or excursion with people living or building nearby) used these actions as a prototype for their lawsuit to shut down the Western Maryland Scenic, or lay claim to half of the East Broad Top, or turn the Conway Scenic into a snowmobile trail over Crawford Notch. Sure, they may be crackpots, or they even might have a point somewhere--but you'll find your money raised for the restoration of that steamer going instead to a team of lawyers no matter how much you tried to do things "by the book."

It's for this reason, and this reason alone, that I believe that such legal wrangling should be made much more difficult than it already is, unless someone has the real resources to put money where their mouths are. I'd rather see Max Biegert have a terrific operation like the Grand Canyon RR up for sale rather than have him in year fifteen of lawsuit Hades with barely a wheel turned in the meantime.


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 Post subject: Re: That STB filing in Md./Pa. re: Riffin
PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2006 3:20 pm 

Without reading the STB filings - the reason that normal abandonment procedures would not have been followed for this line was due to special law created enabling the planning and creation of Conrail that side-stepped ICC abandonment procedures.

Tom Cornillie


  
 
 Post subject: Re: Showalter Turntable
PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2006 1:44 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 2:46 pm
Posts: 658
Location: St. Louis, MO
When you can tell us about the sale of the Showalter collection please let us know if this included the 100' C&O turntable they had. And if you can tell us where on the C&O it came from that would be welcome info as well.


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 Post subject: Re: That STB filing in Md./Pa. re: Riffin
PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 11:21 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:12 am
Posts: 578
Location: Somewhere off the coast of New England
The full board rejected NS's petition on the very narrow grounds of errors in the property description. They very pointedly did not address the other issues raised -
Quote:
In addition, other issues have been raised which have not been adequately addressed by the parties. They include: (1) the “stranded” rail segment beyond milepost UU-13.8 that extends from Baltimore to the Maryland/Pennsylvania line; (2) the issue of whether approval of the transfer of Conrail’s assets to MDOT in 1990 was necessary by the Board’s predecessor, the Interstate Commerce Commission; and (3) the request to be exempted from the OFA provisions of 49 U.S.C. 10904.


There was no mention at all of CNJ Rail's yet-to-be-filed OFA.

GME

GME


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 Post subject: Help me out here
PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 11:58 am 

Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2004 7:57 am
Posts: 2598
Location: Faulkland, Delaware
Does this guy want to lay track back to the state line and connect with the track left in Pennsylvania? His objective it to operate a tourist train?

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Tom Gears
Wilmington, DE

Maybe it won't work out. But maybe seeing if it does will be the best adventure ever.


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 Post subject: Re: Showalter Turntable
PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 3:12 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 12152
Location: Somewhere east of Prescott, AZ along the old Santa Fe "Prescott & Eastern"
First, there has to BE a sale of the Showalter stuff. I think one of the turntables was sold to Altoona; I dunno if they have yet another one sitting around or not.

Please, unless you're seriously in a position to either buy the table or send a reputable buyer their way, harping all around about it really does no good. It certainly won't go to scrap--the Showalters learned the lessons of the Jensen fiaso, I think, and won't let things go to scrap accidentally or by neglect. I think the fact that they still have said table speaks more about the real demand/usefulness of such tables than many of us on here want to acknowledge.


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 Post subject: Re: Help me out here
PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 3:25 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 12152
Location: Somewhere east of Prescott, AZ along the old Santa Fe "Prescott & Eastern"
I've given up trying to figure out this guy. I've formally sicced the Baltimore Sun newspaper on him. Let THEM try.

The only true clue we've had as to his motivations for filing as a railroad operating company is an alleged incident where he was supposedly cited for earth-moving, landscaping, etc. on railroad right-of-way supposedly adjacent to property of his, where Baltimore County or the Md. Dept. of the Environment cited him for doing said actions without a permit (supposedly a large bulldozer was involved) and he was claiming exemption from said penalties on the basis of his "company" being a railroad company and thus exempt on the basis of "restrictions upon interstate commerce".

Trust me, I do not have the details exactly right, but the general details--bulldozer, right-of-way, fines, court--apply.

For the uninformed, I should point out that there is a section of former PRR right-of-way between the current end-of-track (well, the last of the abandoned siding in Cockeysville proper) and the south end of the Northern Central Rail Trail. This gap is approximately one mile in length, and does feature the PRR Cockeysville depot, what would be the crossing of Rt 45 (York Road), and a nice old mill building with the remnants of a coal trestle siding.

In other news, the Sun's resident railfan reports to me that there are, indeed, two passenger cars sitting on the northernmost extremity of the line--"blue with yellow trim". Apparently Riffin finally DID get his ex-VIA cars shipped in.


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 Post subject: Re: Showalter Turntable
PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 3:32 pm 

Joined: Tue Sep 07, 2004 1:58 pm
Posts: 21
Location: Altoona, PA
We did purchase the 105 foot former RF&P turntable from Jack.
It is currently being rehabilitated on by our Director of Operations Neil Myers and a group of volunteers. The wheels are being converted to roller bearings by ORX. The motors are being rebuilt by a local company. The pit for the table is done. I am sure Scott will be putting new photos on our website soon.
I do hope the other table finds a good home as well.
Dr. Andy Mulhollen
Secretary
Railroaders Heritage Corporation
Railroaders Memorial Museum
Horseshoe Curve National Historic Landmark


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 Post subject: Re: Showalter Turntable
PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 4:14 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 2:46 pm
Posts: 658
Location: St. Louis, MO
My reason for asking is only that others are looking for such a turntable, Ryan Scott from the Great Smoky Mountain line who posts here, for example. Since I started keeping track of these I have helped some outfits that were seeking one, and Scott Cessna and the Railroader's Memorial Museum was one of those. I would hope only suggest serious potential buyers would contact the owners with a turntable for sale. But in the effort to keep track of them I was just wondering if it was still there.


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 Post subject: Re: Showalter Turntable
PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 4:24 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 10:56 am
Posts: 1330
Location: Roanoke Va.
To my knowledge, this is secondhand info, the Showalter's other turntable which was stored in the Covington area, was scrapped last fall. Ben, do you know any of the details?

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