Since it'll get lost in the shuffle below, allow me to repost this from the U30B thread:

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=141613

"NREX (Alstom) 4180 rests in Irondale on its way from Texas to NRE Silvis. Loco was tagged as "dead/retired"

So it seems one got away from RMDI after all....... paging the Jersey fans and the EL Dining Car Preservation Society.......... well, OK, the latter was a long shot, but......

thanks! another EL survivor! :)
I just compiled this history of the unit from several internet sources..
if anyone has anything to add, or corrections, to this history please let me know!
thanks,
Scot



EL 3380 - built 1/73, builders # 38755
to Conrail 4180 4/1/76
to NJDOT 4180 12/2/76
sold back to Conrail in 1994, when all U34CH retired by NJDOT.
To Alstom 4180 (date?)

went to Mexico at some point. (date?)
Was at RMDI at some point. (date?)

was in Irondale, Alabama, at Norris Yard Diesel Shop , on 4/20/2006
future fate uncertain.
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=141613

Thanks but...no thanks.

I also saw the photograph on RailPictures and was surprised to see that at least one U34CH escaped the scrapper's torch.

As for seeking to acquire it for preservation, I should think that New Jersey and New York interests would want to be involved. From the larger perspective of General Electric locomotive history, the U34CH was such a numerically and regionally insignificant footnote to Universal-line production as to be of virtually no interest outside its former service area. A U36C, upon which the U34CH was based, would be of far greater historical importance.

Is the 4180 still a U34CH, in mechanical or electrical terms, or has it been altered to become something like a C30-7? Is it complete? Operable? Does anyone in the NY-NJ area think it would be interesting and viable to operate it in excursion service? Diesels generally don't have much "daisy-picker" draw, especially relatively modern types.

Sure would be nice if there was a "Dieseltown USA".

David Garon
Moderator
gelocos@yahoogroups.com

In a different light - this locomotive model was significant in among the first locomotives constructed with modern Head End Power. As such, they set a precedent for the design of other locomotives (or that they would be rebuilt into). In a preservation context, it could also be used to interpret GE's other contemporary forays into passenger locomotives, namely the U28CGs, U30CGs for the Santa Fe. In this regard, the locomotive would likely find a home in a museum's collection that specialized in GE locomotives and/or passenger trains.

Tom Cornillie

There is already one U34CH preserved in the United Rail Historical Society (URHS) collection in New Jersey, that being former NJT 3372 builders number 37950, built in April 1971. The URHS acquired this thru New Jersey Transit, this unit supposedly the last one to run, being used in work train service at the end of it's career.

According to URHS roster info, the remaining units were sold to Conrail in 1994.

Didn't engine-driven HEP originate on the C&NW ? I seem to recall a modified E-8 design. Perhaps our resident EMD expert can confirm or deny.

On a related note, most-if not all-of the ex-MILW F40C's have been retired from METRA service as well. These were six axle 3000 hp units with engine-driven HEP.

"This locomotive model was significant in among the first locomotives constructed with modern Head End Power. As such, they set a precedent for the design of other locomotives (or that they would be rebuilt into). .."

Any F40PH would be far more representative of HEP-equipped locomotives than a U34CH.

"...it could also be used to interpret GE's other contemporary forays into passenger locomotives, namely the U28CGs, U30CGs for the Santa Fe. In this regard, the locomotive would likely find a home in a museum's collection that specialized in GE locomotives and/or passenger trains."

Unfortunately, there are no museums which specialize in GE locomotives. Moreover, GE is itself manifestly uninterested in its own history. And, again, the number of odd passenger versions of Universal-series units constructed was so insignificant that in a world of extremely limited preservation resources, selecting a narrowly regional unit like the U34CH for investment seems inappropriate. If a representative unit was to be selected, it ought to have been the P30CH - which was used pretty much everywhere in the USA at one time or another. And as another poster has reported, there is already a preserved U34CH, so this one isn't much of a priority.

David Garon
Moderator
gelocos@yahoo.com

It depends on what story you want to tell (or what research questions you want to be able to answer). If you want to simply have a represenative example of an HEP locomotive, then a F-40 PH (or some other locomotive based on your particular regional situation) would suffice. However, if you want to show how a technology evolved, and under what conditions, then it makes sense to preserve a number of pieces to show significant points in the time line.



As I recall the Lake Shore Railway Historical Society was planning on interpreting GE locomotives at one point. Somebody from their group made a loud appearance on this board not so long ago, but then disappeared - perhaps they could shed more light on this topic.



Again, it depends on what story the museum is attempting to tell. In many ways the U34CH is a direct ancestor of the P30CH.



I would concur with this final determination with two caveats. First, are there parts unique to the U34CH that should be saved in the event that repairs need to be made to the URHS locomotive. Finally, what is the current condition of the URHS locomotive - if it has been stored improperly (and damaged as a result) it may be unfeasable to restore in compairson to a locomotive that has been in regular service until recently.

Also, in response to an earlier point in this board. The first direct-drive HEP was installed in 6 E9s built new by EMD for the Milwaukee Road. Several of these units remain today, including two at the Illinois Railway Museum.

Tom Cornillie

Dave, as the saying goes, " I couldn't have said it better myself."

As the U34's could be run in freight service with conventional eight-notch throttle by means of a setup switch, I doubt any major mods were done to the locomotives. Perhaps the drive shaft between the main alternator power take-off and the HEP alternator was removed.

One interesting design feature of these locomotives is that the main equipment blower was moved from the front of the engine cab to the radiator cab- a la the Dash 7 line. The HEP alternator is located where the blower would sit in a conventional U series.

My final comment, which is completely speculative is: I would doubt that these units were converted to Dash 7 specs. For thing, the equipment list needed to do is quite extensive (and expensive). In terms of the locomotive control only, the excitation and wheelslip panels would need to be replaced, which in turn would require a later-model turbo with speed sensor along with six replacement traction motors-also with a built in speed sensor. To take things a step further, this would imply a recomplete re-wiring on the low voltage side.

In more recent times, GE has done some business in marketing upgrade kits (Bright Star) to create microprocessor equipped Dash-7's.

Tom, the P30CH's post dated (1975)the U34CH's. They were built with steam generators and at least some were retrofited with twin HEP engine /alternator sets. From a design standpoint, they didn't really compare with the U28CG's or U30CG's-which had the steam generator
behind the operators' cab. The steam generator(s) on the P30 were located the rear of the locomotive-which was conventional locomotive builder practice.

Dave

I am the one who wanted to purchase the U-34CH. :-) However, I am not a millionare and for something that would cost $200 per/ton at 140 tons, I don't think I nor anyone outside of a few could afford to purchase it.... I am hoping against hope that some railway preservation society in this country could obtain it to prevent it from being scrapped... For the reasons below...

This particular locomotive (the 4180) pulled the VERY LAST REVENUE commuter train to feature a U-34CH out of Hoboken, NJ in August of 1994!! Not only that, but in 1973 it was one of the 2nd batch of U-34CH's ordered(EL/NJDOT 3380) to fully replace the steam heated hauled stillwell coaches on the Port Jervis Lines.... I also have pictures of this engine performing freight duty for the EL and Conrail!!!

The original U-34CH (3351) came out of the Erie, Pa assembly plant in October, 1970. Unfortunateley I believe this engine was scrapped...!

So in answer to some of your questions, yes this particular engine should be preserved forever!!! These engines were the very first locomotives to feature a Shaft Driven HEP for commuter service as well as one of the only engines to have a switch for both freight and passenger mode...!! Rare enough if you ask me!

Long Live the 4180!

Steve P.
Denville, NJ

A private purchase of a diesel locomotive that may not even run ?

My .02?

For some people, this act could culminate in

a) a quick trip to divorce court
b) bank forclosure of ones' home
c) voluntary commitement to a mental hospital
d) bankruptcy
or some combo of the above

Seriously-not for the faint of heart. Ask around.

There is a fellow who visits this board whose little collection suffered at the hands of some low-life vandals/thieves.

Join a group that owns 'em, which limits your financial exposure and best of all-you wash up and the leave the thing behind at days end.

BTW, those things scale out at closer to 190 tons.

D.P. Kay

Somewhere in my vast "archives" I have a British cartoon book which included the cartoon of an obviously ex-Woodhams Scrapyard Great Western Railway 0-6-0PT sitting on the slightly slanted driveway of a classic British rowhouse, stretching from the garage door to most of the way across the sidewalk, back wheels chocked, with a man in a trench coat and fedora bent over and shouting through the front door mail slot: "But, dearest, I got it for you!"

NH0401,

I COULD do that, but the problem I face here in NJ is that we already have a U-34CH that belongs to the URHS... And secondly I don't think there are any other NRHS groups that have a keen interest in the locomotive like I do... I can ask around, but I'm pretty sure the Whippany Railway Museum and the members of Tri-State have no such interest in obtaining the locomotive... I will get these excuses...

A) Too heavy to run along the shortline railroad
B) Not historic enough (Rather obtain a E8 or F7)
C) Cost too much to maintain
D) All of the above


SteveP
Denville, NJ

So whats the chances of the owner just donating it to a museum?