What if someone had the money rebuild more of the Rio Grande. How much of the main line between D&S and CATS could be rebuilt? What has been built on the old main since the line was removed?

Just a fun question to throw out here.....

Never happen.
This notion crops up every once in a while.
Boring ride, Jicarilla Apaches own a big chunk of the old ROW,
Other ROW has reverted to private ownership.
Anybody has any extra cash, they could pump it into the Cumbres & Toltec where it is always desperately needed.
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From the same thread on the Dead Goat. I was there about a week earlier, when everything was dead. I was headed east to a new job and never came back.

http://www.goatbbs.com/cgi-bin/bbs50/we ... 8875#38875

Jay's got it right - in fact, if anything he understates the case.

Yep, there's the reservation and a fair bit of private land the old ROW now traverses, but the biggest single obstacle is Durango itself. I'd expect that anyone asking this question hasn't been to Durango lately. Durango has GROWN. The old ROW into town is GONE, GONE, GONE, swallowed up by extensive highway construction/realignment and development. The current D&S yard is a shadow of its former self and completely surrounded by urban environment. It's difficult to stand at a vantage point and even imagine the old layout, even with pictures in hand.

I'll disagree with Jay about one thing, though. While not high-mountain-alpine, the scenery is anything but "boring". Different strokes...

Sure would be nice not to have to drive US 160, though.

Scott

Scott,
I agree with you that the scenery is anything but boring. I really enjoy the drive from Chama to Durango, in the dead of winter when there is not so much traffic.
What I was really referring to is the RIDE.
110 miles at a slow pace would drive me bonkers, no matter how great the scenery.

Ah, sorry. I misunderstood.

Still, different strokes. I'd find the ride relaxing and would be among the first in line to grab a through ticket for the reconstructed Antonito to Silverton line. That said, however, I expect we're in complete agreement that as a tourist line it'd be wildly impractical for a host of reasons.

And for those and previously stated reasons, it ain't gonna happen anyway.

In any case, it's easy to get carried away with dreams of what might be or what might've been and forget how fortunate we are to have the two segments of the D&RGW NG that we do have. Those two segments face more than enough challenges as currently constituted.

Scott

It would be nice if the C&TS had the line west from Chama to say Monero or Dulce would be great. Year round operation of the C&TS would be possible.

Unfortunately, I do not think many tourists are in the are at that time.

Doug

Interesting thoughts. My current 'campaign' for the C&TS is to have a 'year-round' railroad. I know that we can't run to Cumbres all year, but we COULD have something going on in the Chama and Antonito yards, and perhaps a little way up the line. Shutting the whole place down from the middle of October until the end of May makes no sense.

I will be very interested in seeing how visitation at CATS will be affected by the high cost of driving. What special new marketing plans are being proposed?

dave

Dave,
"Special New marketing"?
Mostly it's actually DOING some serious marketing for a change since money is now available for it.
Lots of TV ads in the 500 mile radius.
Print ads in key summer vacation issues.
Wade Hall cooked up a catcht concept which I have been workig on with the ad agency. Looks lime they are going to use it. See attached.
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Hi Jay,

First, if there was a line to Monero (at least) and the coal mine there was still safe, the C&TS could get coal on-line from the same place the D&RGW did in the final years.

I also recall a USGS marking that a mile or two beyond Dulce is a gravel pit on the old grade. I do not recall if there was one one closer to Chama. But a gravel pit would allow the C&TS to bring in its own ballast.

Second, I have always wondered if the C&TS could operate Antonito to Big Horn or Sublette during the off-season. No new large track laying.

Food for thought.

Doug

Doug,
There is practically no reason that trains can't run out of Antonito earlier in the spring and later in the fall. Motive power, people and planning are constraints to be surmounted.

The mine at Monero is unsafe and the coal at Hesperus is better. Rio Grande used Hesperus coal.
There is a big gravel operation near Antonito.
What is REALLY needed is good granite for ballast.

Jay,

Thanks for the details.

Hesperus would be nice, but it would be a bit past Durango. (Of course #5 or #42 could use the RGS < grin >).

Doug

Doug,
Imagine!
#169 back on the Cumbres Turn
#463 running a daily train Antonito to Lava or Big Horn and return.
#483 running daily from Chama to a new wye at Los Pinos, and return.
The Lava Tank back in service.
REAL museums in both Antonito and Chama.
Short trips around the yards for the kids. No need to steam up, a diesel would do.
Imagine: Promote activities surrounding the train, almost year-round, but other than the long train-ride from Chama or Antonito. Everybody talks about the ride being too long. It's time to do something about it.
There is no need for the Chama and Antonito yards to turn into ghost depots between November and May.