I have noticed that some tourist operations require that passengers remain seated while the train is in motion, while others allow passengers freedom of movement, either within the car, or between cars.

Personally, I've always found that the ability to get up and move around is one of the pleasures of train travel. I've also noticed that some volunteer conductors get a little overzealous with safety rule enforcement and unintentionally create a less than hospitable environment for the customers.

That being said, I also recognize that some tourist lines don't have the smoothest track surface; even light brake applications at slow speeds can cause abrupt stops; and the passenger mix usually includes a fair number of small children, not all of whom are well supervised.

So a bit of a survey, if you will - does your operation require passengers to remain seated while the train is moving? If so - or if not - what is the philosophy behind your policy?

Alan Maples

This is an old dilemma unlikely to be solved by any application of common sense, what with today's litigious environment.

The problem is that "rail legs" and the ability to traverse rail cars in motion are very much an unquantifiable factor of experience and conditions, just like the ability to walk about in a railroad environment without getting struck by a train. Since I can't produce a certificate showing that I have been trained by the same safety rule book as the employees, I have to be lumped in with the thieves, the vagrant hobos, and the drunken college kids playing "chicken" with trains.

I, too, have witnessed the "everybody stay in their seats!" syndrome. Combine this with something like an RDC, and it's no wonder that people complained that the excursion was no different from a school bus ride! I have to wonder what the "victims" of such a travesty expect from Amtrak--it might as well be Greyhound or an airline flight. On the other hand, I can also picture the nightmare of a chipped tooth from a lurch at the wrong moment, or someone threatening lawsuits over a cinder to the eye.

Not an issue on the San Diego & Arizona.

Sometimes questions like these can open hypothetically open up the proverbial "can of worms".

I agree that "common sense" applies. If you have a gift shop/snack car along in the consist, don't you want people to visit it?

Do you have car attendants on each car to assist people between the vestibules??

Do you allow people (such as smokers) to use the dutch doors if available in the vestibules? (here's another controversial topic).

I agree that the ability to get up and move around is a sheer pleasure, and taking it away severely hampers the riders enjoyment. I've never experienced a problem with it.

SCRM's official rule (by Genral Order) is that passengers are to remain seated between US 321 and Rockton. I usually interperet this to mean that that's the ONLY part of the trip they have to remain seated. The reason for this GO is all the stopping and starting we do on this part of the railroad, what with having to stop and flag 321 and all. With engineers who only run twice a month, it's easy to get out of practice and make rather bumpy stops. When I car host, I usually ask folks to sit down between Rion Road and the end of the trip, too, since there's stopping and starting going on as well as the steepest hills on the east half of the railroad.

Most of the time it's not a problem. The vast majority of pax stay put anyway, maybe switching sides of the car for the return trip but that's about it. I have far more trouble getting people to not stick their arms out the windows or let their kids lean out the windows.

The SAM Shortline does not require passengers to stay seated. It is a long excursion, and we do have a commissary car, so we WANT people to visit and SPEND MONEY. Track condition is not the best between Cordele and Americus, where the heavest freight traffic exists on the HOG. This section is jointed rail, while the stretch between Americus and Plains/Archery is CWR and sees less freight. Passengers have to move carefully, but we want them to do that anyway. I've been standing on the train during two emergency brake applications and the deceleration was not fast enough to throw you to the floor. I suppose if we hit something it might be more of a jolt, but in general, we have good engineers who handle the train well without any (well, few of them) jerks and jolts.

We have a standardized announcement of safety concerns/rules that we (the conductors) make after leaving the station in Cordele, and sometimes once again after the stop at Georgia Veterans State Park, especially if we board a large group. Passengers who order reserved tickets also get a safety sheet in the mail with their tickets. And yet some still show up with inappropriate footwear. Shoes are to be worn at all times.

Children under the age of 13 are not allowed to roam the train (beyond the car they are riding in) without an adult. This is one of the safety announcements, but it happens anyway, and the car hosts and conductor/trainmen are always turning them back or escorting the child back to the parent.

Our coaches are sealed window with AC, so limbs outside/falling windows is not an issue. The vestibules are made available, with some exception of close brush and one highway bridge underpass, as long as a car host or other crew can stay with the passenger. Smoking is not allowed anywhere on the train. Passengers are allowed to exit the train to grab a quick toke during our 5-minute station stops, and of course are free to smoke anywhere off the passenger platforms during layover stops. With the longest ride segment being about an hour, the smoking issue does not usually pose a problem.

That's the SAM Shortline's view.

We tend to ask eveyone to remain seated when the streetcar or train is in motion.

So may people come on board and get seated with their you kids standing up on the seats to look out the window. If you have a rough start or stop, the child could end up on the floor or against the next seat. I don't want to deal with a "goose egg" on the head or broken teeth.

Another thing about children standing up on seats is that it can get more dirt, etc. onto the seat bottoms or cushions. How many of us remember the signs that said to keep feet off of seats.

Also one thing about passenger cars is that the vestibule curtains need to be in place. Without curtains someone passing between cars while in motion could get fingers, etc. caught between the vestibule stiker plates. If you don't have vestibule curtains, keep people from moving between cars while the train is in motion.

New Hope & Ivyland RR solved this problem about 1970 by removing the diaphrams entirely and replacing them with light "dog leash" chains. (The real reason for the removal was that the fan with the cutting torch had bought commercial models of the ex-Reading RR coaches that didn't have diaphrams, and wanted them to match the real thing!) New Hope's passenger safety rules were often based on whatever someone saw Amtrak or S.E.P.T.A. doing the day before, so that the passengers could get the experience of a Real Railroad. In 1977, passengers weren't allowed to board before departure time at the terminal because "Amtrak doesn't allow their passengers to use the train as a waiting room". About 1968, passengers were prohibited from occupying the cars while the engine ran around the train in the yard, because of an earlier injury claim due to a hard coupling. The prohibition didn't apply if the "run-around" was made at the station.
On a West Chester Rail Road off-line excursion in March 2004, S.E.P.T.A. had a rule against either occupying or riding in the vestibules. The car hosts interpreted this as meaning no trips to the lunch counter car! At station stops, they decided that you couldn't use the steps on the next car, even if the trap door on your car was stuck closed. However, they did make it clear that the passengers were welcome to move around without restriction while on the West Chester's portion of the line.
On hot days at Penn's Landing Trolley, Philadelphia, we used to ask the passengers on Philadelphia & Western 46 to stay seated when we ran with all the side and train doors open, but that was so one person wouldn't hog the breeze.
What happens when the "remain seated" rule meets the Lunch Counter and Gift Shop car with no seats?