The past few days I have been tossing around an idea in my head. I know that the FEBT and the EBT itself have their hands more then full with just saving the buildings and keeping the current track and equipment in running order. They really don't have the time, money or man power to extend the usable track. Now on another note looking at this from a ridership prospective. It would seem to me that Mount Union would have a greater amount of a rider base being a little more in the outside world and more populated. Please correct me if I am wrong as I have yet to get to the EBT. This would give more reason to extend usable track to the north toward Mount Union. How many miles of OOS track is between the current end of track and Mount Union and how many bridges? Now the idea I have been thinking of is creating a new organization with the soul intent of raising the funds for and providing the man power to first clear the track an do enough maintenance for speeder traffic. The bring it up to a condition fit for train usage. It could be done in sections a few miles at a time to make it more manageable. I am in no way saying that the FEBT or the EBT is unable to do this or is not doing their jobs. They are doing their jobs to the best of their abilities under the current circumstances. They are just to few for to many projects. Now the questions would be, would anyone have an interest in joining and or supporting a group like this, would EBT accept a group like this, would they use the track and do you think is can be done. I am willing to start a group like this with the help of others and start fundraisers to restore the oos track of the EBT. It could be called the East Broad Top Preservation Society. Now at the moment this is just an idea and has no real backing. I am just trying to get an idea of what I would be getting myself into if I try and organize this.
Next question is what does it take to form and start a group say like the FEBT?

-Eric B.

Short and brief answer: About 5.5 miles from Shirleysburg to current EOT of the dual-gauge, probably reconditioning of the last mile to 1.5 into the Mt. Union interchange. One major bridge (the Aughwick Creek concrete arch bridge, where replacement in kind may be more expedient), and I think a culvert or three.

Physically possible to restore this track/line to speeder or railroad operation? Most certainly. Will the railroad permit it? I won't begin to speculate.

The biggest mental obstacle, to my eye, is that as much as the EBT can use the help, there is little impetus, other than sheer love, to help out a private property owner improve his property and increase its value with no tangible promise that the long-term future of the property is guaranteed. Then there's, of course, all the liability risks, etc.

Frankly, however, in my opinion any energy that would be devoted towards restoring the out-of-service line should, for the time being, be devoted instead towards rehabilitation of the currently-operated trackage, which (strictly in my own opinion, mind you, not that of anyone in any authority) is rapidly degrading and in need of a full-fledged tie replacement and reballasting program.

The greatest obstacle to reopening track north of Colgate Grove is the loss several years ago in a flood of much of the lengthy fill immediately south of the Aughwick bridge. I estimate the fill is about a half mile long, and more than half of it is gone. In some places the rails simply slumped to the ground, but in other places, they are suspended several feet in the air.

I agree wholeheartedly with Sandy. The current operating trackage is in extremis and needs a great deal of help.

The 15-minute drive from Mount Union to Orbisonia isn't a factor in ridership. The ad budget is what matters.

$10,000 spent on advertising the existing operation will bring more riders.

$10,000 in opening new track won't add a single rider without advertising, and now you'll have to maintain that extra track. You're worse off, not better off.

It doesn't matter how many miles you operate, if your potential customers don't know that you exist.

JAC

I would encourage you to channel your interest, enthusiasm, and financial contributions towards the existing Friends organization. They have spent a lot of time and effort building trust with the Kovalchick family. I think any attempt to create another support group, no matter how well intentioned, could be counter productive.

I am not a member of FEBT, but I am impressed with the work they have done and relationship they have established. I'm sure they, too, would love to see more of the railroad reopened someday. Supporting FEBT and buying a ticket to ride the train are the best ways to help.

Alan Maples

I agree with Wayne. As I posted on the narrow gauge discussion forum, the FEBT and Rockhill Trolley Museum are cooperating with the EBT employees to clear the tracks for speeder operation south of the coal dock toward the next major highway crossing. This section has already seen speeder traffic on special occasions, and more track may be cleared as time goes by. The section that Wayne mentioned was washed into the neighboring fields, and much of it was pushed back off the fields by bulldozers onto the right-of-way, burying some of the rails. (The farmers did not think corn would grow well in a combination of ballast and boney!!)

Phil

Well it was worth a shot at asking. I'll just have to try with something else. I completely understand your points and I think you for your replies. Consider this idea now closed. Thank you again. I'll just stick to writing my book.

-Eric B.

I stopped into Mt Union one day on my way back to State College after a trip to the EBT. The guy who runs the short line on the dual-gauge track was out and about. We got to talking, and he told me that he the rights to operate as far as the Aughwick Creek bridge - though lacking a customer that far south, he has no reason to do so. He went on to say that he had the bridge inspected by professional structural engineers, and it checked out to be in good enough shape to hold the weight of an engine and a few cars.

AFAIK, the only physical barriers would be the aforementioned washout, and some paved-over crossings.

So the question still stands: Would the EBT be open to the possibility of the FEBT or someone else opening the track to Mt Union? Probably, yes. I have a friend who is an EBT insider, and he tells me that while the EBT lacks the funds to do it, if money can be raised somehow (or if I ever win the lottery), management would be willing to entertain [i]serious[/i] proposals to reopen track.

Hello,

Albeit, the EBT is remote, it would be interesting if a more direct tie could be made to Raystown Lake which is not that far away. I have never been to Raystown to gauge the vistor draw at that sight.

The EBT is promoted on their web site but how do you get them to cross the mountain? If accomplished, this would drive more ridership from the north end.

Cheers!

Randy Musselman

The questions posed in this thread have been answered adequately.

So, let me invite all those interested in participating in the restoration of the EBT to attend one of our restoration sessions. We have opportunities for volunteers of all skill levels. We have work that involves painting, glass work light and heavy carpentry, metalwork, brush clearing, concrete and many more.

If track is your thing we have worked on:

-Track 3 from Meadow street to the south wye leg
-Leads into Car Barn one
-North Car Shop leads
-South wye leg
-Paint Shop lead

We are currently working on:

-Turnable lead
-South Car Shop leads

More tack projects are upcoming. Won't you join us during one of our Rockhill Restoration Sessions?

# June 24-25
# July 15-16
# August 19-20
# September 9-10
# October 28-29
# November 4-5

http://www.febt.org/Restore

The FEBT crew works on the Turntable Lead on May 7, 2006

About East Broadtop Car restoration. The Combine 16 part of the EBT pages stops at 2001. Did the trucks get put together and the borrowed ones get sent back to the Tweetsie Railroad?

Seems like they should try to finish one project before embarking on another large one. At least for the former Colorado cars they have some trucks under them; but not I think EBT trucks.

Ted Miles

Combined 16 is the combined at my museum NJMT in New Jersey. No one has been out to work on that is 12 or so years. If I remember correctly the lease to the FEBT was broken off because of this. It says that they are preparing it for moving? That car aint going anywhere with the amount of stuff that is stored in it at the moment. Overhead lights, Halloween props and god knows what else. I think that this site needs to be updated. Everything that I looked at so fare ends at 2001. Sorry don't mean to bash anyone but that car isn't going to be coming out to PA anytime soon.

-Eric

The assumption in NJ seems to have been that since no one has been there working on the car body that no work was being done on the car. Several years ago the on-site work consisted of internal cleanup and basic stabilization. As the trucks under the car now were not included in the lease, the decision was made that the next emphasis should be on constructing trucks so that the car could be moved around once it arrived in PA (It would not necessarily be going into a restoration shop right away.) Since then FEBT had been investing large sums to fabricate the parts for the trucks from scratch. After many years of slow but steady progress, all the parts were made. When the point was finally reached when Strasburg was contracted to perform final assembly of the trucks, NJMOT pulls the carpet out from under the project by cancelling the lease. At that point work on the trucks was suspended pending resolution of the lease issue. There is no sense in paying the money to finish the trucks with no car to put on them. #18 and #29 have their original trucks.

Personally this ticks me off. As far as I know it was cut off cold turkey. No correspondence expressing concern, no opportunity to demonstrate the progress made, just a cancellation. I understand that subsequent correspondence from the FEBT BOD to NJMOT on the subject has gone unanswered. #16 likely would have been in PA by now on nice new EBT replica EBT trucks. Instead it sets in NJ as-is and FEBT has nice 1:1 truck kits.

If someone knows more details feel free to post corrections.

I'm not sure what your point is. FEBT has been persuing several major projects simultaneously for several years, and more than one for years before that. Many have been finished.

These projects have been completed:

-Caboose 28 restoration
-Flatcar 119 rehabilitation
-Locomotive #15 jacketing
-Track 3 rehabilitation
-Rockhill Car Shed restoration
-Rockhill Section House restoration
-Paint Shop restoration
-Staltillo Station documentation
-Robertsdale Station restoration
-Car Shop north leads rehabilitation
-Rockhill wye south leg reconstruction
-Car Barn leads rehabilitation (with RTY)

These are almost done:

-Paint shop conversion and rehabilitaiton
-Hopper 802 rehabilitation
-Coles Tank documentation
-Generator room restoration

These are in progress

-RI&C Company Post Office rehabilitation
-Combine #14 restoration
-Machine Shop restoration
-Boiler House restoration
-Car Shop south leads rehabilitation
-Turntable lead rehabilitation

#16 is on hold as noted elsehwere in this thread. The truck components and the Tweetsie trucks are in safe storage. #18 and #29 to ride on their EBT service era trucks. #18 and #19 were a now or never opportunity to acquire. The are not a current restoration project and will not be for at least a coulple years.

wow there buddy chill. Don't get all huffy at me. I am not the NJMT. I am just a member going out to work on trains. What our board does is none of my business. I have no real idea why the lease was canceled. Sources tell me a letter was sent to FEBT explaining the cancellation. Again don't get mad at me or NJMT. The board is not the whole organization and I am sure they had their reasons.

-Eric B.
P.S. Does this mean I should put in my FEBT membership application with a false name? Or keep the fact that I am NJMT to myself? ;-) haha