.

Lawmakers categorize people (and other things) in provable quantifiable ways to assure we are all treated equally unfairly. 18 was the number they picked out of the hat, at which a stage of maturity was theoretically reached, for purposes of maintaining the fiction of adolescent innocence.

Congrats on reaching it (almost). And, hopefully, welcome to the club.

It has been my privilege to have worked with young people I would trust with my life (and have) and to have unfortunately shared some unpleasant experiences with middle aged men who were incapable of "getting it"under any circumstances. Also, the inverse is also true. Given the average age of most of us in the industry is way past graybeard, strong capable young people ought to be in great demand, especially when there is heavy lifting to be done.

Might also want to aim your rant at the majority of teenagers who persist in looking and acting stupid and giving the rest of you a bad image. It isn't difficult to find pants that fit. The reason hats have protrusions is to shade eyes from the suns glare, which doesn't work if they are worn backwards. No pair of sneakers is worth more than $20. Metal intruding through the skin is a shop accident, not personal decoration. Anybody young and healthily pure actually paying money to start an addictive self destructive behavior like smoking, chewing, or huffing can't be too bright or have rational priorities. Using spray paint to decorate other peoples property isn't art. And, risking your own and others lives by acting unwisely does teach life lessons, but the cost of the education can be awfully high, and indicates an inability to think beyond the immediate. Just a few examples.

In other words, life is unfair, and so long as the teens we see in the media (and their blind followers on the street) continue to act in ways that support the stereotype, nothing will change for the better, and it's their own fault for buying into it. If you want a chance based on your individual abilities, earn it by showing us who you are and what you can do - and it sounds like you have certainly done that and then some.

Soon you will be paying taxes and will have a voice in how laws are made. Use it to effect change, but be aware of the limitations inherent in the system, and work on defined, achievable goals. Incremental change over time is what redefines society.

dave

Good teachers build confidence in kids by teaching them and maintaining high expectations for their performance. Evidently, you have hit the mark in your area of interest. The hobby and possibly the eventual job will have a place for you! We need more like you. The problem as I see it, and take into account that I've taught in public schools for nearly 30 years, it a trend among youth to inquire how little it takes to get a "passing grade". "Is that good enough?", is a phrase I hear over and over, year to year. That doesn't build confidence amongst your elders.

You are absolutely correct in stating that youth often gets blamed for the lapses of memory in the elders. I feel your pain. Don't get discouraged. You are paying your dues, and while it hurts, I'd suggest you continue to show your competance in every way you are able. It will get recognized. Remeber, railroading with the real equipment is a serious and often dangerous proposition. You can't blame your elders for being concerned. You can blame the foolish for not recognizing your sincerity and capability. Remember one other thing; it was a Junior Fireman who was in the cab of Gettysburg 1278 when she blew up. It wasn't his fault, but his lack of experience no doubt contributed to the accident.

Hang in there. We're pulling for ya'. We're all in this together.

What you are going through is not unlike what I was experiencing 35 years ago. I too found people who thought my long hair, bell bottom pants, and hippie like appearance meant I was stupid. Fortunately I found other adults who understood that just because I did not dress like them did not mean I was not interested in working on the railroad and especially learning about steam locomotives. Luckily, times were not quite so tightly ruled by lawyers and insurance companies in the seventies so the people I found were able to let me do more things than you may be allowed today. Today such limitations can mean the difference between life and death for whatever organization you are working for.

You may need to keep looking for the right group or groups. While the law may change when you turn 18 the views of those you are working with will not. In my case I first found some very friendly folks at Cass who proved to me I could find a way in. From there I have to thank the guys at Williams Grove for taking a lot of time to show me what it took to run a railroad. They were not hindered by FRA rules and had more freedom to allow me to work on their railroad. That is how I became a steam locomotive engineer by the time I was 19. Thanks to Ross Rowland I was able to join the crews of a mainline steam operation in the form of the Freedom Train and Chessie Steam Specials. None of these people ever blinked an eye at my age or my appearance and readily accepted me into the group. In return I tried to do my job as well and as safely as I possibly could. I dressed and acted appropriately when I was working. In other words I tried to give them no reason to doubt my maturity.

The best compliment I have ever recieved came from my first boss on a shortline railroad. He was telling a visitor about different things we were going to be doing in the near future. We only had a few employees and I happened to be the only one around the shop that day. The visitor, looking at me, ask my boss who was going to do all of these things. My boss, looking at me, said "He is. Just because he is young doesn't mean he's stupid." I have tried to carry this thought with me throughout my career. Even as a teenage railroader I knew it was important to recruit younger people. After a day of hard runnig with the 0-6-0 I would load up anyone who wanted to go and take the engine out and let them run and fire the light engine for however long the group wanted to stay just so they could get the feel of running the locomotive and have some fun. The only rule the organization had was that if we came back in late we did so quitly so we would not disturb those who were already sleeping.

My advice to you is to continue working with whatever groups you find that most suit your interests. If you want to pursue a railroad career by all means do so. Be aware that working on the railroad will often take the luster off the rose and you will wonder what other career could not be better than the one you have chosen. Like what you are going through now you have to add such times to the experience file and learn from them. Whatever you do, do not give up your quest unless you are sure your life needs to go in another direction.

Oh yea, one last thing. The first old heads who encouraged me came from my preteen years and continued for decades. That group of old heads came from an outfit called the Western Maryland Railway. Only they did not speak much about new SD-40's but rather about H-7, H-8, H-9, K-2, I-2, M-2 and J-1 class locomotives.

John Bohon

I wrote back-channel to Jeff with some thoughts on his post, but I wanted to mention that I met Jeff by chance while having one of my rare afternoons out doing modern railfanning a few months back and he impressed me as one of the most knowledgable younger guys I've met lately, and one of the better conversationalists I've met of any age lately. I encouraged him to come hang with us on RyPN from time to time.

If you get a chance to meet him in person, make him welcome and show him around your place. Guys like him are our future.

We've all got stories Jeff, some of them good, and some of them bad.
You seem well-versed, and the fact that a moderator for this forum has spoken well of you has merit in itself. I wish you the best in future endeavors in this hobby.

But there are valid reasons that we live in a society replete with restrictions. You can overcome several of these by displaying ability and making proper decisions. This a part of maturing, in it's basic form. I usually tell the "up-and-comers" to be patient they will eventually "get their turn". I was driving a car at 12 years old, but couldn't obtain a permit until I was 17.

But as with anything we have the human element here. And there are reasons we have "restrictions". A few years back our group took on several young young men under 18 a few years back. The host Railroad of our society determined that it would be in "everyone's' best interest", that a parent be along with them on any trip. I remind you that we are not a tourist railroad, do not own any track. and (at that time) contracted out these trips, which involved three railroads, two short-lines and a major transit operation.

Two of these young men turned out to be stellar performers, one even attending Railcamp in Steamtown. The third however, almost immediately wanted to bite of more than he could chew. He came from a family with a railroad background, knew all the procedures, including how to operate a locomotive. In fact, he actually knew more than most of us in handling and rules. One night, between trips, when the equipment was laying over in a yard, he was apprehended by Police in locomotive seat with handles in place (He had located them in a locker on board) and was in process of actually "notching out" the locomotive. We had gone to extraordinary measures to accomodate this youth, as his parents were divorced. We had made special arrangements with the RR to allow one of our members to stand-in for his parents. It changed everything, and the rules were tightened because of it.

He was turned over to his parents and we never saw or heard from him until a few weeks ago. He was apprehended in a yard job locomotive with several cars that was awaiting a relief crew. Once again, he had located the controllers and was actually moving the locomotive and consist when the relief crew observed and apprehended him. In the cab with him was a female and another male, all juveniles. This time he was turned over to the local Police and juvenile charges were filed against him. He will be 18 in September and was planning on hiring on with a major railroad. These plans are now in jeopardy because of the pending litigation.

I only post this as a reminder that we all must excercise responsibility in these type of situations, and be very mindful of repercussions that could result from a momentary lack of good judgement.

Thanks for listenting.

R.O.

.

Dave, your stereotyping is as bad as the stereotype of anyone over 50 being a crochety old geezer in a rocking chair shaking their cane as wet, worthless young whippersnappers, driving 20 mph below the speed limit, and demanding senior discounts everywhere they go.

The MAJORITY of teens do NOT "decorate" themselves with piercings, spray graffiti, wear baggy clothing, use illegal drugs, etc. At best, some will engage in one or two of these behaviors each.

One of the "young guns" at one of my local museums fits, okay, two or three of those--backwards cap now and then, sometimes baggy clothes in hot weather, an earring, etc. He's also shaping up to be the best shop wizard we could ask for, and several different operations (rail and non-rail) will probably well have to "bid" for his services when he goes pro someday. The first so-and-so that calls him names will be taken out back behind the shop, by yours truly if need be, and have some sense beaten into him.

A young friend of mine is not only covered in tattoos, she's a top-level tattoo artist--the kind that names her own price and gets flown out to Hollywood/Las Vegas to work on her clients. She's also a sword swallower. She's also one of the nicest persons I know (if a bit moody--hel-lo, she's an artist!), and someone I would take a bullet for. And I've personally witnessed (and, by association, been a victim of) discrimination based solely on her tattoos (refused service and/or been pointedly snubbed in restaurants where we were ready to drop $50 a person--and boy, when I got back to the owner, someone's head was on a pike.......)

At one excursion line/museum where I was able to offer my services years ago, the person in charge apparently couldn't get past my hearing impairment and resultant speech impediment. For all practical purposes, I was talked down to, shoved aside and ignored. It took other members of the group to take me under their wings and find another angle for which to use my talents and contribute (writing and photography). Their loss, my gain (in time not wasted). Said group has since been through several rounds of travails and upheavals--staffing being one of the issues, which is somewhat surprising, since they were one operation I know managed to find ways to accommodate youngsters willing to learn.

And by the way, try some sneakers that cost more than $20 someday. Maybe your bad attitude may be from uncomfortable feet. No one needs to pay big bucks for designer labels, but the best pair of shoes I wore out was a pair of $55 steel-toed sneakers recommended to me by a NASA communications system engineer.

Thanks Sandy, you made my point about the stereotyping that young people have to overcome before many older people in positions of authority will take them seriously.

FWIW, my comments were expressed not as vaildation of the stereotyping from my POV, but in an effort to provide some valid context for the difficulties faced by young people who wish to be treated as adults, but find it difficult. Generally, the biggest hurdle is the actions of other young people who make a terrible impression reinforced by media driven negative stereotypes, such as some of those I mentioned, which they for some reason choose to adopt rather than more positive attributes. Go figure......was it Mark Twain who said that no stereotype was worth a da**, this one included?

True story: my badly concieved but successfully executed college intern program in Savannah had one very bright and motivated kid show up looking like a pirate from the waist up and a convict from the waist down. No problem since the job was a summer internship for college kids if he looked like a college kid. At the end of the program, he wanted to apply for a full time job that had opened when a long term employee had left for greener pastures (of which there were many). My advice: lose the do-rag, clean up and wear pants that fit when you interview with the ED. Looking like a college kid is fine when you want to get a college kids job, but look like a grown man when you apply for a grown mans job.

He did, and in the years since, has taken the vow of poverty and is building a career in industrial historic preservation. Without the do-rag, and with pants that fit. Credibility matters, and initial impressions are a large part of building credibility. I think John alluded to dressing appropriately in his post as well.

Simply, for any group - encouraging negative stereotypes bad, rejecting them in favor of more positive imagery good.

Feet are fine, thanks for asking.

dave

It's very encouraging that a young person is willing to continue a long running tradition of railroading. With that said, I'd watch what you say to certain people based on what you know. Not everybody likes a "know it all"( not that I am saying you are a KIA) When I run a engine, some firemen are too wrapped up in how I'm running and what could be better, that they do not watch themselves with so much scrutiny. I've learned the best way to run is to do your job, not critique the other guy, unless you are the CMO and it's your duty. I've learned the art of biting my tongue.
There are so many ways to run and fire the locomotive. As long as the engine runs nicely and steams while staying on the rail, everything is okay.

I think this is excellent advice. Anything worth doing is worth waiting for. Knowledge and mastery you seem to have. Now is the time to add two more and you'll be ready by your 18th...meekness and humility.

Complacency, the nemesis of railroad safety, is borne out of the mindset that one is fully qualified to do the job. Even the sagest of the old ones can still learn things. It is more about attitude than knowledge.

Oh, and I forgot, patience.

At some time, someone will ask you for help or advise. When that happens you provide the information in a professional manner without any joy or animosity. Save the glee and the smile for the trip home.

This weekend I had to seek help from someone in their 20s, thirty years my junior. Our conversation was quite, to the point, and acknowledging that there was a difference between similar but differently equipped cars. The conversation was conducted as between two knowledgeable individuals.

Then on the way home, I thought through the problem and said to myself, I had a way of deducting the answer and why didn't I remember it at the time. I think I'm going to remember the answer.

.

Well I'm lucky that I have not run into this problem. I volunteer at a STATE governed railroad museum since I was 14. I was certified as a brakeman and conductor before I was 15. I have been able to do everything but run a locomotive(and even that under supervision and no passengers) I have not had to deal with the FRA and I must say that by doing the work I have earned a lot of respect from the older members. I have been a brakeman, conductor, flagger, car inspector, car knocker, machinist, grease monkey, gandy dancer, tour guide and so much more. As soon as I turn 18 (this September) I am going to volunteer at the New Hope & Ivyland to get my steam license. Now for you I would say as frustrating as it is you will earn more respect if you just do as your told and watch and learn. That way when you are 18 they will know you are more then able to do the work. Just dont give up what ever you do!

Eric B. five year member NJMT
two year member WW&FRy Museum

Greetings :

AS Mark Twain once stated - When I was a boy of fourteen, my father was so ignorant I could hardly stand to have the old man around. But when I got to be twenty-one, I was astonished at how much the old man had learned in seven years -

Funny, I can recall being there myself, and being a young volunteer at a museum. Yes, I could do a lot, and was, looking back at it, probably a pretty pesky kid. Now that I am some what older, and have had the opportunity to make a few mistakes myself, my only advise is to allow others to make thier own mistakes, and in time, you'll have your own chance. You'll have a life time to do all this in, so don't be discouraged !
You'll get there, and once you do, then you'll wonder just what you've done and just how did I get here.

Slow down, take your time, watch and have a good look around, your only young once.

Cheers-

Karl Johnson