Anybody know anything about industrial locomotives built by a company called Cincinatti? Any relation to the trolley builder Cincinatti Car Co?

The closest I can come:

1) correct your spelling. It's "Cincinnati".

2) John H. White, Jr. had a book on "Cincinnati Locomotive Builders 1845-1868" originally published in 1965 and reissued in softcover in 2004.

3) I have nothing on "Cincinnati" locomotives in the "modern" (i.e. post-1900) era at hand. I might check out the traction books at the Maryland Rail Heritage Library and tell me if Cincinnati Car ever did any electric locomotives as well, but I doubt it.

4) Why in heck is a S.C. museum asking?

A company named Burton built gas/mechanical locomotives similar to Plymouth friction drive locos.

Mie speling iz purrfikt. Its the resst uf the wurld that dusint no hou too spel thingz ryte! :o)



Well... I guess I can come out with it.

One of our members (Jack Woerhle) has discovered a cache of three narrow-gauge (3') locomotives in Tennessee. Don't ask where, I can't remember the name of the town. Anyway, apparently we can have them if we move them -- the owner wants to sell the land and just wants a tax write-off for donating the stuff on it. There are two rather ordinary looking 0-6-0T saddletankers (but they're not in Wes Barris' database) and an offset center-cab "diesel" which may be a gas-electric or gas-mechanical. It's got "Cincinnati" cast into the headlights as well as painted on the side. The stuff is apparently from a logging company called Werner Lumber.

Another member (Ruppert Baird) found some info on Cincinnati -- apparently Cincinnati Car Co. did enter the industrial locomotive market just before they went under. Rupe claims that only one unit is known to exist, I don't know if the TN unit is the one or if it's a second, previously unknown unit.

There's also some logging equipment (looks like mostly mill stuff) and some mine carts on the property, as well as some smallish rail (I don't know the size yet) as well as a bunch of military surplus trucks. I just learned that the diesel is owned by someone different from the other stuff. We haven't officially decided to accept the donation -- heck, we don't even know exactly what is included and what isn't. The stuff technically isn't SC, but being from Tennessee it's close and it IS similar to stuff that ran here. At the very least, the stuff is good trade bait or resale material. I have an exhibit in mind for the stuff if we get it -- there was a wood yard just west of Rion at some point (I need to research exactly when), so that spot would be a natural location for a logging railroad and sawmill exhibit.

My info on the stuff is still sketchy. Jack emailed me some pix, which show just enough to be tantalizing but not enough to reach any firm conclusions about the stuff's significance. Here are a couple of them:

Leaving aside those massive photos that are taking forever to download on dial-up, The Gospel According to St. J. David says that the steamers are Vulcan tankers, built in 1911 and 1912. Both were apparently purchased used (third- and fourth-hand) by the Nashville, Chattanooga & St. Louis before being sold to Sam Werner Lumber, and were supposedly stored in the Tracy City, Tenn. area, to the northwest of Chattanooga.

Of course, I'd most certainly prefer that you put your energies towards the repatriation or relocation of one of the Argent Lumber Co. lokies, but if opportunity knocks............

(Now where is my copy of "Logging Railroads of South Carolina".........?)

Even with DSL, it is taking wa-a-y too long to download. Maybe the picures could be made smaller?

Later!
Mr. Ed

Dear Matt,

I suggest asking about the internal combustion locomotive at

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LocoNotes/messages

and please keep us informed as to what you find out. This would make a good topic for a breif, too.

Also, I suggest that good pixel dimensions for web photos are 1000px wide, with the resolution set at 72 pixels per inch (which is default screen resolution)

Tom Cornillie

Apologies for the big pix. Those were the raw images Jack emailed me. I should have done some Photoshop work on them before posting them but being as I was (and am) posting from work when I'm supposed to be doing something else I didn't take the time. :o)

As for an Argent loco, I'd love to have one, but AFAIK they're all in relatively secure homes and unavailable.

I've chopped the files down a bit. Apologies to all, I didn't realize the pix were that big.

We have discovered that the steamers are Vulcans, still looking for their early history.

The diesel doubles the number of Cincinnati (did I spell it right this time?) locos known to exist. There's a standard gauge Cincy which apparently belonged to a company called Gold Bond. One of our members sent this quote:



We have still made no firm decision, although we are in contact with the owners. If we do acquire them, we'll most likely keep the locos for display. They'd be trade bait at most, not sale items. The military trucks, rail, and other equipment would most likely be the main trade bait or sale stuff. But since we haven't officially decided what to do yet and don't even know what we can and cannot get out of the collection, I can't speak with any authority on that. Heck, Murphy's Law dictates that by saying anything at all 've probably screwed up the deal somehow.

Sometimes I get a laugh out of these new "discoveries". Those locomotives have been known about by the folks in Chattanooga for decades. Be careful about any promises made by the "owner".

You will also find a mention of them in R.E Prince's book on the NC&StL.

I have some pics of them somewhere taken by a TVRM member who inquired about them a couple of years ago.

Some further research at the Md. Rail Heritage Library has turned up a mention in "Electric Traction Magazine", May 1929 issue, page 258, has a mention of Cincinnati Car Co. constructing a 4-wheel gas locomotive for industrial switching. The Md. Library doesn't have a copy, but Thomas T. Taber III's epic "Periodicals Index" says that a file should be at the Georgia Institute of Technology in Atlanta, UNC Chapel Hill, or the North Carolina State College of Agriculture in Raleigh. Clemson and USC do not have this periodical on file.

A further mention in other periodicals indicates that Cincinnati Car Co. built its last cars in 1929, so it's entirely possible that this surviving loco may well be the only one built. If a higher authority wishes to confirm more Cincinnati loco construction beyond the one reported in the magazine, go to it.

(Now, Matt, where should we send the invoice for the hour's research @ $10/hour?)

Those engines are a near urban legend in TN. There are all sorts of tales of picture takers being run off by shotgun weilding people and all kinds of stuff.

Last version I heard prior to this was they wanted $50,000 each for the Vulcans.

Legend also states the owner of the lumber mill shut down perminantly rather than pay minimum wage when that law went in to effect.

It would be neat to see them moved out and properly cared for.

"Mie speling iz purrfikt. Its the resst uf the wurld that dusint no hou too spel thingz ryte! :o) " THAT was a good one!! I needed a good laugh after this week!

Matt, I don't know if you can tell us or not, but it sounds like a pretty eclectic collection of schtuff they have there!! Was this somebody's collection around the house or was it from some defunct group or business? I'd be in heaven walking around there!!

I just got done working on a Cinci Car Co. product... a 1924 El car from the CTA. They sure had a nice look for an everyday commuter car!


Good luck in your pursuits!

I don't consider myself a higher authority. However, there is one surviving Cincinnati loco in the Batavia, NY area. It has been privately owned for at least 15 years, perhaps more. It is, I believe, a standard gauge, four wheel, internal combustion loco. I will try to develop some further details.

John R.

The standard gauge Cincinnati loco is still residing in WNY.
Photos on the yahoo-railcritters list show the similarities
between the standard and narrow gauge units.
While Jay Reed claims that they were built by CCC another
authority on that firm claims,with 2900 items he collected,
info on locos never surfaced. More digging is needed.