To confirm, yes, the grade at Tweetsie is at 5% on the climb to the Fort and slightly higher on the downside. But of course, compared to Saluda, the climb is not nearly as long. Still, it can be a beautiful sight (and sound, and smell) to witness either the #190 or #12 fight the grade.

BTW, #190 will probably be running from now until Railfan day.

Matt Bumgarner

I can vouch for it being a great battle with the grade. When the engine stops for the "cowboy and indians" bit, the water glass actually reads bone dry due the angle the locomotive sits at. The last time I was there, I got a cab ride and the fireman pointed the sight glass out to me, and my eyeballs popped out of my skull. I think they pull that on railfans who ride the cab all the time...

I don't know about anyone else, but I was taught that as a fireman you should anticipate grades, especially if you were going to be stopping on one facing downhill so you cold ensure there wold be enough water to keep some in the glass when you stop. Just because there is water in the boiler on the flat, when you stop on a forward facing downhill the water glass empties because all of the water rushes forward. Without water in the glass you can not ensure there is enough water to keep the crown sheet covered.

During stops water will surge forward but return but to stop on a hill with no water in the glass? Not a situation I would want to be in - and joking about an empty water glass under steam is not a laughing matter and should never be taken lightly.

I've seen the crown sheet of the 1278 as well as seen the results of what scalding steam can do to someone in the cab. There is no room for error when keeping adequate water in a locomotive boiler.

I have only been on a Tweetsie engine once, and I am by no means an expert on their operating practices, but I recall they watch the glass closely and measured the level before the engine started downhill. I was told that they are always prepared to stop right at that point if the water level is not as high as they want it. I don't recall seeing the gauge go anywhere near bottom on the way down, and the crew was very professional in their handling of the engine and train.

At Dollywood, which has a similar steep grade, I also noticed the engine crew checking both water glasses when they reached the level track and making sure they had plenty of water before starting downhill. These guys, too, were serious about their work and were real pros.

Alan Maples

I think my first post wasn’t taken in the context I’d meant it.
The crew knew exactly where the water was, just that the glass doesn’t read it right where they stopped #190. I never said they weren’t professional!

You never said they weren't professional - but you did state they allowed the glass to go "bone dry". This can only lead the reader of your post to one of two conclusions.

1. The crew permits the water to get to such a level that on a downhill grade the water level cannot be accurately determined - whether they think they know what it is or not, if you cannot see the water level you leave yourself in a precarious situation.

2. Your post was inaccurate and misleading - putting the crews of the Tweetsie in a bad light.

edited to add clarification: My post is not intended to flame or insult, only to point out that we need to be careful what we post when referencing operating practices as what may seem an innocuous post may in-fact place an organization in a bad light or make it appear that they have questionable operating practices.

That said, what does Ross's post (below) have to do with preservation?

Easy fellas-the Thread Locker lurks!!!

This might be a good occasion to direct readers to a new post clarifying the RyPN Guidelines as they relate to debates over operating practices at specific organizations:

http://rypn.sunserver.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=20997

Okay, I can understand that. That actually never occurred to me, as the Tweetsie crew is very well-known for their operation and rebuilding efforts. I’m as familiar with how a steam locomotive operates and most of you here (not nearly as well as Ross, though), and I actually thought it was funny that they pointed to the glass to freak me out. I have the water glass on videotape, and I went back to watch it last night, and it is clearly dry. I called up my father who also got a cab ride right after I did (it was a week day and we got there when they opened), and he said they didn’t point out the water glass to him, and he knows stationary boilers quite well, so he’d have noticed if it was dry or low. So maybe it’s if the engine sits exactly at the crest of the hill or not that makes this happen. That would support what the crew told me that day.
The last thing I wanted to do was the show a fine and friendly crew in a bad light. I NEVER intended this to be any manner of slam against an operation I’m a huge fan of, and I’m sorry if it was taken that way.

To change the subject a little bit, has there been any word about a new lease for the Tweetse Park?

It is one of the oldest tourist railroads in the United States, having been started back about 1958.

And the they operate the 12 the only surviving locomotive from the ET & WNC a short narrow gauge line with a long name.

Ted Miles

Ted:

As clarification to readers who may not know, although ET&WNC (East Tennessee & Western North Carolina) WAS a narrow gauge (36") line, it also operated a standard gauge segment. Two of the surviving Southern Railway 2-8-0 Consolidations (numbers 630 and 722) provided motive power for that segment well into the diesel era. The ET&WNC was an interesting rail operation in both narrow and standard gauge.

Les

When I was there in September, I asked them about it. They were all tight-lipped about it and even those in the know with ET&WNC preservation are hesitant to bring the subject up. Everyone appears confident that a solution will present itself that will allow Tweetsie to continue in the location it’s currently at.
I’ve heard all kinds of rumors. Among them; the operators want to actually move the park not too far from Blowing Rock, the people who run “Dollywood” want to buy everything from Tweetsie and add to their park, among other rumors. But I think it’s a safe guess that #12 is in no danger, as it just recently was completely rebuilt and has a lot of time left on her now. She’s one of the most famous existing narrow gauge engine in the country and has a huge fan base. Even if Tweetsie park gets closed, which I really hope never happens, I’m sure #12 will still be well cared for somewhere.
They had several standard gauge locomotives before 207 and 208. But Elizabethton, TN, is considered by many to be the place in the United States where steam locomotives of two different companies operated in interchange service. Porter fireless 0-6-0 of North American Rayon Corp is also considered to be the very last steam locomotive to be operating commercially with the United States. It never once pulled a fan trip and was used into the early 1990s. Thankfully, it’s very well preserved today near the former site of the plant:
http://www.steamlocomotive.info/vlocomo ... splay=1145
(FYI, it’s been repainted and is under cover today)

Actually, the very scenic Doe River Gorge trackage is still in place, but has unfortunately come under the control of a militantly fundamentalist group who do not consider railway preservation, or even tourist railroading, as a worthy priority. For a while Ken Riddle ran a little teakettle on this line, but even that operation has since disappeared.

If a lottery winner wished to build a NC version of a vest-pocket sized EBT, but with D&S style scenery, this could be the place to do it.

dave

First, the Doe River Gorge trackage was relaid in the 70's as part of an ill-fated amusement park after being scrapped in the 40's. The bridges and tunnels are original however.

Second, having visited the Doe River Gorge operation I found the Christian Youth Camp there to be neither militant nor fundamentalist. The were excellent hosts. The track was abandoned after the small amusement park went under. The camp purchased the land and with their blessing, the delapitaded track was brought back into service. Without their blessing there would be not rail revival there. The steamer Rachel that was there for a while left because it was only on loan from Gaylord Entertainment. After promisses by Gaylord to donate the locmotive, a change in management led to the locomotive beind donated to a site in Texas instead.

The Doe River Gorge operation is still operating using a very nicely restored Plymouth and two rehabilitated cars from Six Flags.

http://www.doerivergorge.com/etrr/deezul.php

(Note, I am not invoved with the group, just a visitor)

I am sorry, but I respectfully disagree with your characterization of the Doe River Gorge Ministries. They are neither militant nor fundamentalist in any negative sense of the word.

As a visitor, they are most accomodating to everyone, and frankly, they bend over backwards to give tours and allow access to any part of their property. It is true that their primary goal is to offer a Christian experience to youth and teenagers, and not run a railroad first, but it is their property and their perogative. Frankly, as a volunteer at many organizations, including this one, I find them to be extremely friendly and they have done a super job at harnessing volunteer railfans at doing everything from ditching to rolling stock maintenance to tie replacement to braking on their small trains (after proper training). The "accessibliliy", or lack thereof, at many museums that is often bemoaned on this list is not a problem at DRG. Give them a visit and experience a slice of Appalachian narrow gauge railroading. Whether or not you are a militant fundamentalist, you will thank the Lord that this little sliver still exists and that a property as responsible as the DRG ministries is its caretaker.

Matt Bumgarner