"Not interested in diesels"? Well, I beg to differ a bit here.... If you look at how many operations run steam and how many operate diesel power, I suspect the steam operators are in the minority. At RMNE, we operate a number of older diesel locomotives, and we are not overwhelmed by people (young or old) seeking to put their hands on the machinery. And we are known for giving new volunteers (of all ages) as much opportunity as they want. Those young guys you mention, working on the T's locos, are doing it for a paycheck, not for the reasons we're involved with this old stuff. Young folks are entering the rail industry, but more often as employees, not volunteers. If any of those young T guys are interested in the Jurassic-era diesel power we have, send 'em down to Thomaston, PC!!!!

As to the subject of Railcamp, I think this is the single greatest thing the NRHS has ever done, and they should be figuring out how to expand it---- only 36 Railcampers per year?? I am VERY curious to know how many applicants there were in total; if they number in the hundreds, then there is a great need for more Railcamp capacity.

HP

NAUG/RMNE

I can't disagree with any of that Howard. I wish the interest in Jurassic-era diesel power that the folks at RMNE have was shared more widely across the preservation community, but I don't see that happening right now. Young people working in the railroad industry, even though they are working for a paycheck, are potential volunteers, but the professional experience and interests of most of them are diesel oriented. They see the balance of discussions on this website and in NRHS activities and it gives them an impression that there is not much interest in the kind of equipment that they work with.

PC

You should have seen the RailCamper's eyes light up when the DL's Alco units came smoking by...Also, the RailCampers are given some supervised throttle time with diesels (not DL's) themselves.

And I know for a fact that those involved with RailCamp are looking to expand the program to other places and get more involvement from Class 1's. CP already sets up a very accomadating day trip to their yard in Binghamton, NY each year. While places like the Nevada Northen and Steamtown have many similiarities, they are quite different, each with their own unique experience offered to youths (boys and girls) and adults alike--think of how it could be if more and more places like them were able to host a RailCamp.

Oh, and during a recent stint on the Ohio Central, I bumped into an old friend named William. A recent high school graduate and former RailCamper from 2002! He'd just been hired onto the train crew. So, on the property that night stood three RailCamp alumn, two of whom were working on steam and served as RailCamp counselors, and one working for an actual railroad. There are many more success stories like this thanks to the program.

Very interesting and thought provoking thread! I've been told that confession is salve for the soul so here goes-I am firmly guilty of being steam-centric to my very core. Dismals have always bored me and I've never been able to experience any excitement with any aspect (looks,sound,smell etc.) of their operation whilst the exact opposite is true for steam. I fully appreciate that the diesel is "todays" railroad reality and us steam fanatics are a shrinking minority-but my heart is what it is!
I'm intrigued by the idea of trying to expand upon the Railcamp program and wonder who at NRHS would be the best person to talk to?
I hope this discussion will continue.
Ross Rowland

Perhaps they could schedule half a day at the DL's South Scranton shops next time? I would think seeing the good work the "Alco Doc" is doing might attract a few "kids" to the historic diesel preservation world.

What about a Railcamp for adult railfans? I personally would be interested in that type of event. I am sure others would be too.

Being from NJ with a ton of different, separate railroad I agree that the internal politics mentioned earlier in the thread is probably the single most factor to dwindling ranks at the NRHS and other organizations.

With baby boomers reaching retirement age all our groups should be expanding by leaps and bounds. Wouldn't offering a Railcamp to retirees be something to entice new members. Lots of adult and age restricted communities are sprouting up in NJ and I assume elsewhere. The directors of these places are always looking for things to do for their residents. This would be a great source for new members.

Chris in NJ

That's exactly what the Nevada Northern hosted this year: the first ever adult RailCamp session. I'm told it was quite the experience!

Its Not Just "The Future of the NRHS" But All Of US!

I think it was Pogo who said, “We have met the enemy and it is us.” It is just not the NRHS who is having problems with relevancy and openness. But it is our industry!

We need to look outside of our little group and see what others are doing and how they doing it! I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again we need to reinvent ourselves as an industry and get away from the train ride and here’s a rusting something or other that was really important five or six decades ago. We have a fabulous story to tell and we are not telling it.

We have two major challenges to over come. First, our collective knowledge base is disappearing. It is literally dying out. Secondly, railroading is being marginalized and it is disappearing from the public consciousness, unless of course there is a derailment or a grade crossing fatality.

This past summer the Nevada Northern hosted two RailCamps one for adults and one for teens. Both of them were a smashing success. It was our first experience and we will repeat it again next year. All total we had twenty participants. Where I’m happy with twenty, lets face it twenty is not even a good drop in the bucket for raising awareness of what we do.

Both sessions of the Rail Camp featured steam and diesel. And the earlier observation that the teens like the diesels is very well founded. On their first day they were given firing instruction. I spoke with the instructor afterwards and he told me that most of the kids were not interested in firing or steam. Uh-oh.

I’ll post a more indepth review of our RailCamp later, but during their week here they got up close and personal with steam, diesels, tracks and operations. At the end of the week we had the teens railfan a double headed steam excursion. And god were they excited! They had a whole new appreciation for steam and what it took to keep the steamers running.

I submit that we have failed the past couple of generations in not getting them involved with our industry. We can change this, the NN Ry had a RailCamp because I asked the NRHS if we could sponsor one. I challenge other organizations to contact the NRHS and offer to have a RailCamp.

I will tell you that the RailCamps are hard work and involve 16 hour days. But the payoff is amazing. We got Machine Shop Track 1 back in service because the teens rebuild it. Think about it, these teens paid to come out to Ely Nevada and we had them build track. The track instructors were really impressed in what these kids could do. And Locomotive 40 when back into service because of their help.

Recently, the Nevada Northern lowered the age limit of our engineers to 18. Why, because two of our employees are under 21 and I needed them to become engineers. Three of our shop employees are 18, 20, and 24. They fire and run the locomotives in daily service. And they are good. And the reason they are so good? Because they all started at a very young age like 4 and 5. They have steam sense and that innate railroading sense that others wish that they had. But they got it because they started early.

The challenges that the NRHS faces are many, but they are the same challenges that we all face. So let’s get off our duffs and maybe have hundreds of RailCamps instead of just three.

As a side note, to attend a RailCamp you must be a member of NRHS. So if we had 40 RailCamps with 12 attendees over the course of 10 years. That would be 4,800 new members of the NRHS that would be in their teens and young adulthood. That would help change the average age of the NRHS and of our museums.

Also these teens were very savy with computers and websites. Most of them had their own website. Think this energy could help the NRHS?

Barry Smith is the National RailCamp director. Ross, I would recommend that you put together a program and contact Barry. If you would like ideas and what we did I would be happy to share.

For what it's worth, in my opinion the NRHS needs to completely rethink what it is and what it's for. The NRHS evolved into a national foamer's club putting on high-profile steam excursions. When that became no longer possible, the organization didn't change with the changing times, and now is in serious jeapordy of dying.

I would like to see the NRHS do a number of things. First and foremost, it needs to get away from being a foamer's club and get back to railroad history. The NRHS could be an excellent avenue for railroad historians to conduct and publish research. A natural and (to me anyway) obvious way to do this would be to set up a US Railroad History Wiki, which any NRHS member could post to.

I think there's a opportunity for the NRHS to be a financial resource, too. The organization could, over time, develop ties with both public and private agencies that provide grants. At the very least, the organization could compile information on grants that are available to railroad preservation projects and provide assistance in writing those grants.

Then there's the standardization and networking aspect. Say what you like about the NMRA and their standards, at least they've tried to set standards. I've seen grumbles here all too often about organizations that try to operate in a vacuum. The NRHS COULD be an organization that could bring railroad preservation closer together, creating an environment closer to what it's like in the UK.

Finally, the NRHS could become politically active in the cause of railroad preservation. One possible area would be lobbying both public and private interests to adaptively reuse railroad structures instead of tearing them down. There are other possibilities, too.

Hmm, I just had an idea for a project for the Central SC Chapter. I think I'll send a proposal to the next Chapter meeting. Hmm...........

The Nevada Northern hosted the first ever Adult RailCamp this past July. We had eleven participants. Our goal was twelve but one dropped out at the last moment. I wanted to limit the group to no more than twelve because I wanted to build camaraderie during the week. The eleven were further divided into three groups.

This was our schedule. Sunday night was a welcome BBQ and an overview of the week.

Monday they were pick-up by our steam train downtown. Then there was a walking touring of the facility, a review of our rulebook, and a safety talk. That was the morning. In the afternoon it was a firing demonstration and a tour of the local copper mine.

Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday were the rotation days. They were exposed to shop procedures with hands on training. Track was replacing ties, an overview of the track structure and track inspection. Operation was just that, they became part of the crew. They also took a rulebook test that day.

Friday the group was divided in half. One group was switching in the ore yard with our RS-3 and the other was learning about rail preservation. By switching, I mean just that. The participants rotated through being a brakeman, coupling cars and lacing air hoses. As a switchman, they threw switches and using hand signals. And then as an engineer they operated the locomotive, following hand signals from the switchman and brakeman, coupling to a car and them moving it to the next track.

Saturday was a recap of the week and a train ride up the canyon. On the train ride the campers gave us suggestions for improving the program.

Every night there was program. Some done by us and some done by the campers. The day started as early as 6:00 am and ended about 9:00 pm.

The RailCamp put a lot of work on the staff and volunteers. But at the end of the day, everyone enjoyed themselves immensely. The next Adult RailCamp is scheduled for June 3-9 2007. If you are interested in attending let me know. We are also considering an advance RailCamp for sometime next September.

Mark --- thanks for posting this !

One minor correction: membership in NRHS is *not * a prerequisite for teen agers to attend RailCamp, one year of membership is included in the tuitition.

Bob H.

NRHS does have a grants program, to date over $300,000 in grants has been distributed and all of this represents money that has been donated to the Society. See NRHS.com for a list of this year's grants.

Our costs of administrating this program are marginal, just things like postage , xeroxing and phone calls.

Bob H

I took a look at the RailCamp information on the NRHS website and was very pleased to see a photo of Kenny Ganz doing a discussion with the campers about how he does an interpretive presentation on steam locomotives. This is very excellent, you could probably not find a better instructor anywhere, and hopefully with time this may help to improve the quality of presentations at chapter monthly meetings.

Most chapter meetings have only about three elements, the business meeting, the announcements, and the so-called "entertainment". It is the entertainment that has the potential to draw in interested future members, they certainly do not come to the monthly meeting to hear the officers read the reports. Anything that can be done to improve the quality of presentations can only help the organization in the long run.

But what might help out the NRHS chapters is if the national organization maintained a database of programs and presenters that could be accessed by the local chapter entertainment chairpersons. I am not aware of any central listing of programs and presenters being maintained right now, here is an opportunity for the NRHS to help themselves out and maybe improve the overall quality of "entertainment" in the process.

And related to this and to RailCamp is the issue of identifying qualified instructors on railroad related subjects, whether inside and outside the membership, some of whom may also have programs and presentations that are suitable for chapter meetings. Wouldn't it be worthwhile to have a listing of these individuals and what topics they cover in their presentations?

Also, lets take a look at the issue of the loss of information with the passing of many individuals that were involved in the design and development of railroad equipment. In the last year or two we have lost several of the designers who were central figures in the SECOND generation of diesel power. Forget the FIRST generation diesel designers, they are gone now along with the folks who designed steam locomotives. Because of the geographical distribution of the chapters, the NRHS is well situated to conduct oral history interviews with the people who designed the equipment the industry uses. Here is a really useful and valuable service they could perform that would have lasting historic value.

Bob was correct in his earlier posting, the NRHS will be what the members make it. In the areas of railroad history they chose not to pursue, there will be other organizations that will take an active interest and they will become the recognized leaders in those fields. An example of this is the design and development of diesel locomotives, an area of railroad history where other groups are taking the lead by default.

Many good ideas. Special thanks to Mark for his excellent recap of his Railcamp experience at the NN and to SCRM for his insightful comments.
Seems a natural to me to get TRAIN to head up an expansion of the Railcamp product throughout the tourist shortline industry in cooperation with the NRHS. I'll try and persue this marriage with both entities and see where it goes. My gosh even if we can only get 20 operators to initiate an annual railcamp on their properties with say an average of 20 graduates/year that's still 400 new disciples/year. That's worth trying for.
I'll report back. Ross Rowland