I thought it might be of some interest to the participants in this string to take a look back at the seminars which are the more formal "history" portion of the conventions. I took these descriptions off the links to the past conventions, some of the descriptions listed presenters but not the subject, and on the 2005 convention I could not locate a list of presenters:

NRHS Convention Seminars

1999
Western Pacific Railroad – The Final Years
Sierra: Most Photographed Railroad in the World
Life on a mountain: Donner Pass and a town called Norden

2000
Laura Katz Smith Presentation
J. Swanberg Presentation
T. J. Donahue Film
Wayne Drummond Presentation
Operation Lifesaver Presentation

2001
Barriger Railroad Library
Chicago-St. Louis High Speed Rail
Citizen Advocacy in Light Rail Projects
Amazing Eads Bridge
1522 Steam Locomotive Restoration
M-K-T Railroad
Wabash Historical Society Presentation
Terminal RR Association of St. Louis

2002
Northern Arizona Logging
When the Railroad Leaves Town
Western Railroads Multimedia Presentation
Grand Canyon Railway
Santa Fe Railway

2003
When the Railroad Leaves Town (repeat?)
Archaeology of the B&O
My Life with Steam (by somebody we know)
Running Steam
Railroad Photography Techniques
Baltimore’s Railroad Legacy

2004
Railroading in Minnesota
Railroads of Minnesota – Iron Mining History
Minnesota’s Electric Railways

2005
(Programs Not Described)

2006
Dining Cars
Northern Ohio Traction and Light
The Changing Scene
Operation Lifesaver

Agreed Ross - I have made no secret of my desire to see TRAIN become less a good old boy club and more of a professionally vital industry advocacy organization. Things have come a long way since Karen and Dan Ranger took over the daily leadership, with publications going out on time and containing more real information in a more timely way, but there is still much that can be done.

The point was brought home to me at last years convention - I had recently seen a presentation by a Rails to Trails group that was so polished and well produced it could have come from Hollywood - comparing this to the inability of many of us to do a tenth so well in our own presentations to each other at our own meeting, it struck me that we are surely headed for irrevelance unless we become as polished and professional in our ability to communicate meaningfully, not only to each other, but especially to those who are not already enlisted. If we can't talk to each other, how can we gain political and business support, and recruit new people, in a much larger arena?

The competition is doing a much better job than we are - Mark is correct in is Pogo quote.

I just wonder if NRHS is the best vehicle to promote these activities, or if another organization that has done a better job of evolving and remaining vital could more readily approach the public and gain its support.

dave

Dave you raise an important point/question. I'll see how the NRHS reacts. Let's give them a shot at this as their survival is clearly at issue here as well. Perhaps self-interest will be a sufficient motivator??? I must confess that I've had virtually no contact with the NRHS for many many years so I have no idea about their current leadership dynamics etc. Let's see what can get done. Your point about professionalism is very correct and important. For instance I just checked the NRHS convention website to get a report of the convention happenings and the "daily" report only got completed(amatuerishly at that!) for the first two days and has not been update since. In and of itself it's no big deal-but it speaks to your point vividly! Seems to me if you're going to do something either do it right or don't start!
Perhaps Mark at NN would be willing to take the lead in getting the TRAIN organization to take a serious look at this at the upcoming annual mtg.? If they'd agenda it I'd gladly come help promote it. Please advise Mark when you can.
The more I think about the future the more important this is.
We'll do our best!
ross Rowland

Um, guys, in all this discusson about turning the NRHS into an "advocacy" group for historic and preservation railroading--- what about ARM??? (Association of Railway Museums) After all, they already exist, and they have a recognized set of "standards" for railroad museums; why reinvent the wheel?

By the way, having spent the past two days working on a crew replacing ties in 90+ Connecticut heat, I was particularly intrigued by Mark Bassett's teen-age track gang!!!!

Howard P.

I think another issue with the NRHS is that is is an all volunteer organization, the Rails to Trails group probably has paid full time employees. Couple that with every gov't Planning agency having employees also searching for tax dollars to consturct new trails, and you can easily see how that group has become polished.

As a civil engineer, I belong to several national professional organizations. Each one of these organizations has full time paid staff for the day to day operations, new letters, event, etc. that the organizaton promotes. While the officers are elected volunteers, the core worker bees are all paid staffers.

So I personally think any large national railroad group needs to have a core full time paid staff that can place a professional spin on our interests.

Chris

ARM might be a good default choice but it seems to me that the core of the program is to use a "hands on" experience as central to the lesson plan. That being the case its much more suited to an active tourist/shortline rr than a museum. Thus I feel TRAIN is the natural place to get it greatly expanded with or without the NRHS.
Ross Rowland

Ah, yes, the ol' "paid staff" conundrum. I'm having/watching that debate with several groups to which I belong. Man, it gets ugly fast.

First, a correction: The NRHS does have one paid staffer, Lynne Burshtein (spelling? can't find the card at the moment), who handles basic administrative and secretarial duties in the NRHS's national HQs in Philadelphia. But, true, other than that it's all-volunteer.

Many, many non-profit organizations believe paid staff/administration is "the kiss of death" of an organization. Sometimes it is, because the fighting over whether a person should be paid and how much (and whom) has been known to totally destroy an unprepared organization. On the other hand, it's totally preposterous to expect a volunteer administrator to oversee (just as a made-up example) 12 miles of track, sporadic freight service, weekend year-round excursion service, four historic buildings, twenty pieces of rolling stock, ten bridges, and a multi-million-dollar yearly budget. Or even just a multi-million-dollar budget and administration for a four-day trade show.

No one (outside of a few deluded idiots) expects the Smithsonian Institution, the B&O Museum, the Museum of Modern Art, the California State Railroad Museum, the Ford Museum, or the Museum of Science and Industry in Chicago to be run by bored retired geezers looking for something to do. Certainly, if a truly qualified philanthropist wants to donate his services or turn around and return his paycheck, don't let me stop them. But in the non-profit world just as in the business world, "you get what you pay for" (or are willing to pay for).

The word "professional" is bandied about too much as a synonym for "reputable" or "high standard" in modern usage; all it really means in a literal sense is that someone paid for the services voluntarily. There has been much debate in this forum and elsewhere over whether the NRHS, the rail preservation/history movement, etc. is presenting a "professional" front to the public--the non-railfans, the casual visitors, the potential donors and foundations, etc. Many times the answer is yes (see CSRM, the Rails-to-Trails lobby, many recent well-researched and approachable rail history books, and in my opinion the R&LHS); in many other cases (your typical "McRailMuseum"), the answer is no.

Ross et al: it was explained to me in very specific terms that the host organization was soley responsible for the selection of presenters / content of program at the TRAIN annual meetings (got me to stop pestering them about Porta stuff). Dick Noonan at CSRM is putting the current program together. It may well be worth approaching him with a finished proposal for the subject to be included. Mark would certainly be well versed to talk about RailCamp, and perhaps somebody from Steamtown? I would hope the subject would be of adequate interest to be included if it is possible.

dave

It certainly is not my own phrase, but one I have not forgotten since hearing it:

"Non-Profit is a tax classification, NOT a business plan."

Once a group (NRHS, TRAIN, PTM, RMNE, B&O Museum, etc.) grows to a certain size, a number of paid employees become a necessity. Any volunteers that resist that concept are simply interfering with the development of the organization.

Ross,
Don't forget ARM. The convention this year is a joint ARM/TRAIN convention. Maybe we can get the NRHS, TRAIN and ARM all in the same room with interested parties. I would be happy to give a presentation on our experience. And I'm sure someone from Steamtown could tell of their experiences. I'd even invite a couple of our participants.

This won't be a single hour presentation but would take 2-3 hours. I would like to keep the NRHS as the lead of the program. Greg Mollary the current President impresses me as a can do guy. I've worked with both Barry Smith and Gary Yanko, again can do guys. I'm not saying there might not be bumps in the road, but it is very doable.

If you can get it on the agenda, we'll be there.

I agree there needs to be a mixture of paid staff and volunteers. We use both here at the Nevada Northern. You need to be sensitive to both groups and there are bumps in the road. But it does give you the best of both worlds.

My experience at our Museum is that we have several volunteers that I would qualify as "professional". That is, they have a depth of expertise in a given field and they happen donate their services to the cause. Likewise, we have a paid educator. She has extensive experience working with young children and I would classify her as a professional educator. This is not to say that our loyal volunteer corps and our paid gift shop staff are un-professional. So I tend to stay away from such terminology.

Wesley

When I use the term, (can't speak for Ross but sense he also) I intend it as a qualitive rather than remunerative distinction. Perhaps I should say "professional quality" instead. I refer to standards and practices common to those paid well to have provided a service or product successfully for long enough to have achieved a high level of competence.

If you needed surgery, for example, would you prefer a long-experienced MD do it or a part time volunteer who may have another profession (such as butcher) do it instead for less money? Even if the butcher works for free, I think I'd rather trust the proven compensated expert.......and given the difficulties we are discussing in this thread have been the result of deficiencies in primarily volunteer work, perhaps considering a change isn't unrealistic.

dave

Such may well be the case. But there are also instances in our avocation where the choice is between a guy with a degree who knows all about, for example, fundraising but nothing about trains, versus "the guy who's been the PR guy for 25 years and we're still running and he can fire a Shay".... Add to the example above a retired doctor who may not specialize in that field but is willing to do 90% efective work on a volunteer basis. Then what?

I was brought into one of the groups as an outsider knowing almost nothing about the mission statement subject (the equivalent of a lawyer or caterer who just happens to think trains look cool); I quickly proved myself up to the task of helping the organization move forward on several fronts precisely because I WAS an outsider and wasn't slavishly bound to an increasingly-outdated mission plan.[/quote]

IMHO, Mr. Mitchell is dead on the money here. Any type of preservation (I also volunteer for several Civil War related organizations) ain't medecine. I think that an unpaid person who cares about what they are doing can accomplish much more than a "professional" who may have a degree in "underwater basket weaving" and happens to luck into a non-profit career. I have seen this "professional" mind set hurt many organizations. (see another thread I have recently responded to.) Talent, skill, and interest in the job being done are far more important to success than whether or not a paycheck is received for the work done.