Some time back I remember a post about repairing parts of a wood floor (small areas) in a railcar using a new epoxy or similar material to fill in the rotted out section that had been removed and prepared. I am trying to do such a repair now, but can't find a product like the one I saw. Any suggestions or ideas?

TPK

Abatron in Kenosha Wisconsin makes a product called WOOD EPOX which is a two part dough that gets kneaded together. Working time is fairly short and it would have to be supported 100% in any such application. It is not inexpensive and I wonder how it might perform on a floor patch larger than tennis ball size.

Bob Kutella

Actually, just finished using ABATRON to repair an area of a wooden car where horizontal and vertical framing members used to come together. I used their LiquidWood as a primer after digging out most of the rot, cutting it about 20% with their solvent for greater penetration of the remaining soft wood surfaces, and repeatedly applying it as the previous aplication soaked in.

After it cured, used WoodEpox to fill in the hole - about 3" deep, 9" wide, and 4" high - from the vertical "front" which was accessable. I use rubber gloves and knead the two parts together in handful-size batches. Several handfuls were applied, starting with the entire visible treated wood surface, followed by sticking the new batches to the old batches. I filled the hole to barely concave. No drooping or sagging was evident.

As the epoxy cures, it gives off heat and expands, which caused it to bulge out into a slightly convex shape, which i can now just sand down to the original contour and paint.

This used up about half of a "pint kit" which costs about $100. Saved me a couple days of carefully removing material to make the entire structure accessable, carefully cutting out and joining in new wood, and reconstructing, which is well worth the $100 several times over.

I wouldn't replace entire boards with cast Abatron (although it might work) but for repairing small areas, especially inaccessable or complex joints, it will certainly work well if the instructions are followed.

If the holes in the floor go completely through, applying a plywood patch with screws to the underside before filling the hole would help prevent losing a lot of the filler through the floor onto the ballast.

dave

http://www.oldhousejournal.com/restorat ... home.shtml

Do a keyword search on "epoxy" and you'll find several other suppliers. Or pick up a copy of Old House Journal on the newsstand.

JAC

Try any form of auto body filler, Bondo to use a name. There are better brands at auto paint supply shops. For filling side panels it is just fine and a lot cheaper than the "Old House Restorer" varieties. If it is on a floor then make sure that it is backed by plywood as any filler will only be cosmetic and does not have any structural value.

In prepping the area just make sure to remove all the rotted wood. The area can be brush primed with epoxy that is used for fiberglass work. This is relatively thin and will soak into the wood grain and pores. After this is done then use an autobody filler.

Don't be fooled into buying the 100 dollar a pint stuff just because it is advertized in the old house journal. Plastic filler is plastic filler with some minor differences.

Greetings:
With all due respect to Abatron (which I have used extensively), West System (available at boat supply stores and online) is a far superior product both in ease of use (nearly foolproof) and results (spectacular). Pricy? Yes, indeed, but try it once and you'll never use anything else. One of the very few products I have used with lives up to it's claims (another is "Peel Away" wood stripper).
Disclaimer: I have no feduciary interest in either company...
Good luck.
J.David

Contrary to popular beliefs, auto body filler is not recommended to fill anything much thicker than 1/4" even though body shops will use it in greater thicknesses. Beats using a hammer and dolly to knock out the dent. It does shrink in time and will fall out of the hole or dent. I recall a print ad for a product that showed a rotted window sill before and after. I think the product was plastic wood but I am not positive. I have used plastic wood in my carpenter days but it too is not good on thick patches and it dries way too fast for me. But not fast enough to keep it from sagging. If the hole is that big, patch it with a piece of wood.

Later!
Mr. Ed

Epoxy consolidants aren't "plastic filler." They become structural elements so that you don't have to replace the wood - they are not just cosmetic, like Bondo or wood putty.

JAC

I was also under the impression that one didn't "scrape away the rotted wood" when using these epoxy consolidants; the rotten part of the wood was to be left in place and what was left of the wood fibers became part of the matrix. In many cases the rotten wood, although it had lost much of its strength, still held it's shape, so the resulting repair had the look, and strength, of the original board, although the board might be stained and look the worse for wear. If one is going to carve out all the rot back to solid wood, why not just replace the boards with new wood?

Never seen Abatron in an old house journal. I just know how much labor was saved returning this 1909 streetcar to regular transit service. Bondo away, I'll be using abatron, where appropriate. Of course, we werem't using it for cosmetic purposes, but reconditioning of deteriorated structural members.

There's a full-page ad on page 40 of the August 2006 "Old House Journal." They've been advertising in OHJ for many years.

JAC

I didn't say they weren't in the journal, I don't often read woodworking magazines. I'm saying I learned about the product while doing hands-on restoration work. I stand by my endorsement - my comments were generally directed to Mr. Mizer.

Obviously bondo or autobody filler is not going to replace entire sections of wood. it does have limitations and if you work within those limitations then it will give good cosmetic repairs.

I think the thread would have been easier to understand knowing or explaining what the scope of the repair would be. If this was understood then a concise plan for repair would have been easier to agree on.

Gee whiz; a couple of photos about how one of these repairs were made with one of these products? What a NOVEL idea!

Actually, this is where RyPN falls short. Not the fault of the people who run it, but of us in the rail preservation movement (I will include myself and our museum in this.) We need to take pictures, and put them on RyPN! Even if the results are not the greatest! Maybe someone else will have a better idea down the road and show THEIR method! We will all learn.

Les Beckman (Hoosier Valley Railroad Museum/North Judson, Indiana)

I add another endorsement for the West System. I've been using it on wooden cars for over eight years with great results.

The most critical project was a side sill repair that we added strength back into the rotten wood by adding steel rods imbedded into the epoxy.

Some of the "gitt rott" and other systems are also epoxy and designed to absorb into the rotten wood but I am not aware of any fool-proof system to determine that it has completely absorbed into ALL the rotten wood. This is a potential problem in a moving, breathing railroad car, unlike a comparatively static house. Also, wood rot is a fungus that will continue to spread when moisture conditions are right.

Perhaps it is best to just make sure all the truly rotten wood is removed from the car? Any remaining suspect areas that are structurally sound could be treated with a chemical such as borax to kill the fungus (also kills carpenter ants) and then when dry could be repaired with the West System.

Has anyone else worked with borax or another fungicide and care to comment on this?

--Richard