I have been a volunteer at the St. Louis Museum of Transportation for 59 years, since 1947. All this bruhaha about the 952 and the condition of the equipment at MOT, brought to mind an irritation that is ongoing.
I wonder how many other museums are having the same problem'
I'm refering to "You Oughttas",
Visitors, usually visiting railfans, would complain about the lack of restoration or the need of a relic for paint and say you guys oughtta do this or that.
We'd invite them to pitch in on a week end, put up some cash or buy a can of paint and they'd mumble a little bit and then walk off.
Back in the early days, we'd take up a collection on Saturday morning so we could buy a can of paint and then some person would walk up and start with the "you oughtta's."
If all the 'you oughttas" over the years had put their "money where their mouth is" every artifact would look as good as new.
Despite the lack of money and Doc Roberts perceived lack of charisma, the facility, due largely to a bunch of super dedicated volunteers, has come a long way.
Danska

My experience has been very similar. What I would often hear was "You guys should...." (Fill in the blanks). It was usually something very expensive or impractical, or a complaint about some minor detail that caught their attention.

Right. As soon as you offer to let them pitch in or at least make a donation to make their wishes come true, they disappear very quickly. I was always very polite, but like the old saying goes, "If you don't want to hear the answer, don't ask the question." This issue rarely comes up with true railfans, who are generally appreciative of the work that goes into restoration and operation.

Best to concentrate on doing well with what one has, and keeping the paying customers happy with clean equipment and a safe ride. There's nothing more satisfying than the smile of a youngster who has just gone on his or her first train ride.

In all fairness, I believe I have pointed out, more than once on this forum, groups that have offered to "put their monies where their mouths are" in the form of bringing in volunteers to paint a car/locomotive or restoring an artifact, only to be rebuffed for one bureaucratic reason or another ("you aren't members", "it's not on our schedule yet", etc.). I've even heard of some places (railroad and not) where even the desires of the active members are often shrugged off in favor of the agendas of directors--be they for proper curatorial reasonings or sheer personal preferences or PR spin.

Yes, the "you oughta" crowd is often a pain. But at times, it seems the only way they are permitted any say is via persistent "you oughtas", in hopes that a squeaky wheel will get the grease.

I learned a long time ago never to open my mouth until I was in a position to do something myself--such as "If I get someone to donate the paint, will you guys get that thing painted by the end of the summer?" or "If I donate a computer and update your database to something later than a 1980s format, will you guys maintain it yourselves afterwards?"

I get a bunch of "You oughtta get that Allegheny running". The capacity for coal in the tender is equal to the weight of our daily running locomotive. Plus, I wonder how much it would cost just to have a fire in that beast (not restoration, just daily operation!)

"You oughtta" - be happy that visitors care enough about the organization to visit. They could just as well take their "You oughttas" and the associated admission dollars some place else - or even worse say "You oughtta" get out of my back yard.

Perhaps the problem isn't with customers, but with our inability to communicate the challenges and costs of preservation and its importance. Perhaps "we oughtta" look inward before lashing outward.

Tom Cornillie

In our experience, Tom, most of the "you oughtas" or "whyntcha"s (or as we say at RMNE, the "all's ya gotta do is..." guys) have not bought a ticket, like our non-railfan visitors have, and are in most cases simply walking up to take pictures. Frankly, I think we should be more concerned about the visitor experience of the average, non-railfan visitor.

We are certainly pleasant and polite to everyone, and we do explain the fiscal realities of preserving this old stuff when people ask. But lets' face it, railfans either "get it" about what it takes to do all this (manpower, money, time) and they don't pull the "whyntcha" routine, or they are clueless and are not interested in learning why their favortie engine isn't restored since their last (non-paying) visit.

Yes, I have responded to the "when are ya gonna start working on old number 1234?" questions with a statement that, "we'd be glad to have you show up next Saturday and get started on her", which is usually met with hurried excuses about lawnmowers, wives and the upcoming photo trip to Sand Patch, as they rush for their car.

Howard P.
Old Cynical, CT

Whoa!
I didn't intend to imply that we flipped those "you oughttas" off.We tried to be polite to all who came by, but it soon became hard to keep a civil tongue when you're painting a 200 ton steam locomotice with a 3 inch brush when it's 90 degrees in the sun.
Most of that stuff came from guys who commented how expert they were in the care and feeding of steam (or gas-electric etc.) they were.
And back in the early days, there was no admission charge.
There were some, I'm sure that went away feeling like they'd been abused, but most of us were aware that we had to make a good impression and handeled people with care.
In the 25 years that St. Louis County has run the place, it's a whole new ball game. We have trained guides, the place is landscaped and accessable to the handicaped and have a highly competent curator. Restoration is still paid for by donated funds, but the staff gets things done as the money is available.
Danska

About two years ago I had a similar conversation over e-mail with Bob Kutella, curator of IRM's freight car department. He took this argument, and I countered with an offer to create a website to provide in-depth information about one of their restoration projects - aimed at informing railfans and others about the challenges involved in the restoration process, showing in detail what the work is, and where the time and money goes.

The results beat my best expectations in surprising ways - as the project received support from both railfans and non-railfans.

It would also be nice to hear what the Mid Continent Railway Museum's experience has been - as they also seem practice this approach. (As an aside it would be nice to hear ANYTHING from them - their absence from this board is quite conspicuous)

Such an effort does require an individual with some technical skill (depending on the specific web medium used) and the ability to write clearly and explain technical terms and concepts. However, such work is tremendously useful in providing material that can be repurposed for grants and interpretive displays.

Tom Cornillie

Yes, Tom's website garnered donations and other support for Chicago Great Western 601 caboose. And the effort culminated last month with completion of the restoration, an inaugural run for the public, and sufficient funds to house the completed car indoors.

Thanks, Tom. Wanna do anuther?

Bob Kutella

Tom's initial idea of educating the public about restoration realities is a very good one. After all, a museum's purpose, at least in part, is education, and that includes both the aspect of the history of a given relic, as well as it's origins, it's individual story, and the story of what it took/will take to get it back to "like new".

Just the reality of the difference in cost from a gallon of typical "house" paint and a gallon of suitable paint for a locomotive is something not readily obvious to the casual museum visitor.

As we all know, the cost of a gallon of paint (or two, or twelve) is typically the proverbial drop in the bucket when totalling total restoration costs for a given project.

Perhaps some sort of display showing "Where your donation dollars go"
would go a long way in educating the public to the need for dollars as well as volunteer elbow grease. Specific restoration projects, such as Bob's
CGW caboose project, which are tracked and documented through
the story showing the various steps and costs are an excellent way of keeping the the concept fresh and pushing the idea and related monetary needs, as a given project moves along.

All of this of course takes additional resources, drawing from an already small pool. Having said that, the amount of effort/dollars necessary to put together such educational tools is far less than any railroad restoration effort I've ever encountered, and any additional dollars or volunteerism is a bonus from where you started.

Just my thoughts.

Slow down, and view it from the eyes of the typical visitor! Yes, generally these individuals have no idea about the operation of steam, the high pressure, the deterioration, even the asbestos issue, but then why are they at your museum? They come for the nostalgia, the thrill of imagination, the chance to recollect something distant and now silent. Don't mistake enthusiasm for obnoxiousness, or you may find your museum empty on day! My suggestion would be to recommend the inquiring individual wrtie a letter to the museum's board, with a plan for securing financing and some gratitude for their interest. That approach might even yield some estate donations. Telling people they are ignorant, and are blowing "steam" without any common sense is the single worst thing a museum representative could possibly do. While they may be ignorant and obnoxious, they are enthusiastic.
And I, for one, would love to see an Allegheny under steam once more!

Dave's Top 5, Not in order:

Restore 1601

Restore Big Boy

Restore Cab Forward

Restore "that engine in the park" (generic)

#4449 pull all Daylight Train to So Cal.


Smokebox

OK. We don't have any steam, just a mid '60s 100 ton GE that is undergoing restoration as the money and time allows.

But since we are on a "Rails to Trails" we get a ton of walkers, runners and bikers, many of who don't even notice our rolling stock. But there are many who do and then there are the locals who don't think we should be there and they say that we should get rid of all that rusty stuff. Or why don't you paint all of that stuff. To those that have the guts to say it to our faces, we politely suggest that they either leave a donation in the station or put on some old clothes and come on out and pitch in. And then there are those that think we are doing a wonderful thing and do indeed put money in our donation bucket.

But as I said before, not everyone can run a locomotive and very few want to get dirty. So it is good that there are those of us out here that don't mind getting dirty in the name of preservation.

And yes, I too want to run a locomotive. Maybe someday. But right now it needs some TLC before it runs down the line.

Later!
Mr. Ed

I learned very early in my "career" in mainline steam railroading that our "industry" has a small core group of Monday morning quarterbacks who only surface after a project is either finished or underway with all the ways it "should have" been done. With zero exceptions they're individuals who themselves have never successfully done anything of note yet they're full of critisism and "advice".
I also learned early on that the ONLY answer they understand is to completely ignore them and soldier on. Anything else is a complete waste of time and energy!
IMHO-Ross Rowland

Not necessarily - I did all of the work for the CGW 601 site when I was still working for the University of Michigan in Ann Arbor - 247 miles (397 km) (214 nautical miles) from Union, IL. In fact, the first time I saw the 601 in person after the restoration started was its first run.

Utilizing the internet in this fashion offers the possibility of creating new voulnteer opporunities that can tap a new set of skills and interests than the opporunities presently available. I did not have the time (or ability to travel) to Union on a regular basis - and the amount of donations garnered through the site was far in excess of what I could have donated personally.



Interesting - I learned early on in my career in railway preservation that there is a small group of museum volunteers/general managers/curators who refuse to consider any new idea - and that the only solution is to try to efforts that long ago exhausted themselves. I agree - the only answer is to ignore them, soldier on, and lead by example.

Tom Cornillie