I - like many others - have found the discussion re: the recent problems experienced by the LASTA with the 745 to be very interesting. I wonder: why don't we see stories like this in the railfan print media, such as TRAINS magazine? I think this story may well be a major event in our industry for the reasons already discussed: its affect on future regulation, crew training, etc.

Chris J.

If LASTA will not talk about the incident then the press would be printing second hand information. With a story this potentially improtant I would think any reputable raillfan media would feel much more comfortable waiting until they could print facts rather than potentially spreading more rumors. It would appear that for reasons only known to LASTA a lid is being kept on this story, at least for now. I would like to know the extant of the damage to the 745. I suspect we can only wait for more details.

John Bohon

As a journalist, I note that John brings up one factor. Another is the fact that any publication would have to struggle through all the names that have appeared in that thread so far, reduce speculation to on-the-record statements, and report in a relevant fashion.

The bitter reality is that although all this is critically important to those with in-depth knowledge and experience, the vast majority of potential readers will not be interested in the "boring" details, and will only be asking "when can we photograph it again?" It would be similar to an in-depth analysis of the exploding-laptop-battery story as it would appear in the newspaper versus Popular Mechanics/Computer World versus a journal of the Institute of Battery Electrical Engineers or something.

Writing a story on whatever actually happened to SP 745 would probably be much like writing an in-depth analysis of the last 20 years of PRR 1361: the preservation industry and museum community would probably learn a great deal, but at an enormous cost to the reputation/status of 1361 and its caretakers. As long as any of the principals are still active and there remains a smidgen of hope for 745/1361/etc., we're probably never going to hear the full/true story.

Or to be a little more cynical (and exaggerate a bit): Do you think that as long as there's a chance in heck I might get to see/ride behind 745 in Louisiana, or finally see 1361 on the New York & Long Branch or on the Horse Shoe Curve, that I'm going to say in an article that 1361 should never have been a target for restoration to operation or that the people that restored 745 should never have been allowed near a machine shop--provided, of course, that these are the conclusions I would actually reach? (Not that I'm saying that at all about either--I know only what I've read here about 745........)

The whole event seems to have taken the "steam" out of LASTA. They have a Yahoo group, and the Yahoo system allows you to see the message volume even if you are not a member. Message volume on their group is average to light.

This should be handled as an event that is to bring on major change within the industry, representitive of a horrid lack of training, experience and education in the industry. A problem that is with every passing year more serious, both in the rhelm of operators and rebuilders.
Why will this not get the press it deserves? Simple, in this industry people do not want to hear the truth if it is negative......case in point, well I guess I can't say because it is not allowed to state fact here if negative. And this is a form of media that represents, IMHO, the overall attitude of the industry at large.

I don't blame anyone for keeping this out of the mainstream "public" eye. Better to keep it quiet until the dust settles.

We have had a few serious incidents in the last two years in the live steam clubs too. Derailment accidents with injuries. They have also been kept quiet, but major changes have been implemented. Standards are being written and enforced all over.

Derailment accidents in live steam are not new, but the cost of medical care creates a domino effect that encourages or forces the victim to seek legal action. In our hobby the equipment dynamics have also fundamentally changed in the last 30 years too. The typical train today is much longer, carries more people, perhaps operates faster, and carries passengers with a much higher center of gravity than in the past. In the old days, most passengers sat cross-legged on a flat car, but today they are all sitting upright on a bench or chair.

Changes being implemented include tipping moment tests, derailment slide/crash bars, and addition of ballast to cars to reduce their center of gravity.

I don't blame anyone for keeping this out of the mainstream "public" eye. Better to keep it quiet until the dust settles.

We have had a few serious incidents in the last two years in the live steam clubs too. Derailment accidents with injuries. They have also been kept quiet, but major changes have been implemented. Standards are being written and enforced all over.

Derailment accidents in live steam are not new, but the cost of medical care creates a domino effect that encourages or forces the victim to seek legal action. In our hobby the equipment dynamics have also fundamentally changed in the last 30 years too. The typical train today is much longer, carries more people, perhaps operates faster, and carries passengers with a much higher center of gravity than in the past. In the old days, most passengers sat cross-legged on a flat car, but today they are all sitting upright on a bench or chair.

Changes being implemented include tipping moment tests, derailment slide/crash bars, and addition of ballast to cars to reduce their center of gravity.

[redacted]

As someone who has had his fair share(and then some!!) of baseless rumors/innuendoes aimed at him, I would respectfully suggest we all wait until the full FACTUAL report is available of what actually took place during the 745 incident.
My life experience has shown me that the innuendos/rumors are often a long ways removed from the truth. It would certainly be helpful and appropriate if someone in authority at LASTA and in command of the facts would come forward and set the record straight. Eventually the truth will be revealed(even Richard Nixon and Bill Clinton learned that), the sooner the better. Until then let's hold our judgements in check.
Ross Rowland

Amen.

From time to time I get my hands on British publications, Heritage Railways and Old Glory (traction engines), and, I will tell you that they report on EVERYTHING, warts and all. If there is any kind of controversy, from equipment failures to group infighting, it gets reported on.

The LASTA story would have made the cover.

While sometimes it does have the flavor of tabloid journalism, one does learn something when they read it, IMHO it is much more entertaining and engaging.

It seems that all our mags care about is reporting on new diesel paintschemes to the delight of a bunch of dateless nerds.

I did see a brief mention of the 745 while thumbing through an issue of Trains at a newstand yesterday. It was a quick note about the 745 going lame in late August. Is this the same event?

Additionally I remember a certain Editor soliciting thoughts ideas and comments for articles for a certain railfan oriented magazine here a while back. Did anyone take him up on it? If not I don't see how any complaints that the railfan rags don't fully support rail preservation can be valid.

Jim,

It might look that way but isn't really true - there are too many personal agendas! One story I knew all about because I was on the "inside" was wonderfully written up afterwards but a "so called" quote about a conversation was reported in such a way as to be exactly opposite to what had actually said - I had been one of the people who took part in that discussion.

The magazines have to be nice to their advertisers....

You know what? Let's take you up on that challenge. I'm going to grab this stack of CURRENT, hot-off-the-presses magazines here.......

R&R, November 2006 issue: Nevada Northern photo wins the Cover One contest..... REGULAR column on preservation news, this one on New Mexico Shay 7 at Hesston..... Railnews approximately 1/4 text news preservation, 1/3 of the news photos.... two old-and-new features, one photo essay that's about 1/3 preservation, and article on the Chinese 2-10-2's.........

Railpace, November 2006: 32 of the 113 photos, and two of the four feature articles, "preservation" related (AAPRRCO and Wilmington & Western), plus a few more photos somewhat ambiguous (E8's stored on Ohi-Rail, but not formally preserved, etc.)

Trains, November 2006: Little in the main content (unless you count historical material akin to Bob Yarger's photo links), but 3 of the 9 stand-alone news photos, and a full "Preservation" column.........

Just what are you reading, Christian, Extra 2200 South or Railway Age??

"Unnecessarily overwhelming"?!?!? The fact of the matter is that modern railroading is how the VAST majority of readers of these magazines get their regular exposure to railroading unless they live in Strasburg, Chama, or Durango, and by far it's what they're most interested in. It also packs the most variety; how often can we say "been there, done that" with every other rail ride or museum? The imbalance is even greater among the younger Internet-centric railfans--examine the similar ratios at Railpictures or TrainOrders.com.

The magazines are reacting to what its readers want. And frankly, we should be glad that we still have an active and thriving railroad industry to dominate magazine coverage and railfan attention, and that we're not the Canal Boat Preservation News or the Buggy Whip News!

By the time the "news" gets printed in the fan mags, it isn't actually news any more, more like features and photography tips. Not that there is anything wrong with that (as Seinfeld would say) given that reflects the interest of their audience and the lead times necessary in their technological stream.

What they can do better than real news outlets is in-depth exploration in the features. Whether any will choose to do so about this situation remains to be seen.

Here's what I think I know about it based on the reports so far:

SP 745 experienced a low water incident which resulted in 5 of 6 fuse plugs dropping on the KCS mainline.

Here's what I don't know but what seems to be generally believed:

Both feedwater devices were in good working order, but neither was in use, due to operator error or inattention.

If this proves to be the case, there is a training and qualification problem involved. If there was a mechanical problem, there's a hardware and training problem (applied to the mechanical staff) involved, or a QC problem with the fuse plugs if they were faulty.

I'd welcome real information about it from a reliable source, preferably firsthand. I have no idea when any of us will get it.

Whatever the cause, it has engendered a lively discussion about a critical situation as more and more of the highly experienced steam-qualified railroaders evaporate. We license people before we allow them to drive cars - why not locomotives? If not now, we will need to deal with this situation sooner rather than later, so why not deal with it ourselves before it is imposed on us by others?

dave