this Pullman for sale in Denver has been repainted up from the bare metal, but is empty inside and there may not be any original interior.

the owner wants 20K for it. He appears to have painted the exterior red however???

http://www.railswap.org/cgi-bin/classif ... =retrieval

some nice pics there.

the car has trucks but he doesn't describe their condition.

as usual I have no interest in the sale or vender etc etc.

The ad states that the observation platform has been added.

It seems to me that there was some conversation on this in an old thread here on RyPN (4-5 years ago)--discussing the dangers of doing this in that it alters the structural integrity of the car. If he was going to stick this static on a mountain lot--it wouldn't be of high concern, but put into service?

Your thoughts?

sc 'doc' lewis

This car has been around Denver for quite a while. It was owned by a construction company who did some structural work on it. It sat along I 25 near downtown. The car has been for sale for a long time and each time no takers. The construction company wanted 75k for it and couldn't sell it but they finally found a buyer who paid much less. The car not be made road worthy or even made to work on a short line. Best bet is to put it in the mountains.
D Grant

you're right - in addition there are no collision posts - the veranda rail appears to be from reclaimed bedsteads or something.

he could park it next to the D&S and rent it out as a ski chalet??

a pity as this individual seems to have taken quite a lot of pride in his work. maybe he could channell his energies elsewhere?

Disconcerting at best to be a preservationist and see thinwall conduit for electrical, and water piping, run inside; complete with holes cut/drilled through the structure. The 'new' roofline does not seem to reflect any historical profile. I can see another $100K at minimum to make the inside furnished and paneled just to resemble a rail car.

Anyone know the cars origin or history? If it is being touted as built date of 1921 there must be some info available.

Bob Kutella

Bob,
The car was built as a 12-1 by Pullman and was in the pool service. Pullman sold it to MP which ran it as a tourist sleeper then it went to MOW. The name of the car is "Cleminceau". It past thru several hands before ending up in Denver. The car was in fairly bad shape. The new owners gutted the inside and began to make repairs for the end use as a cabin. Plans fell thru and it was sold . The new owner is now trying to sell it but it will never be able to be used as a rail car. The original trucks were wood but had to be scrapped before the move to Denver where it is sitting on GW trucks.
Don Grant

Thanks for the 'history'. It is a shame that this car has no future on the rails, and presumably brakes, and possibly other underbody appliances are lost by now, also. One of the hazards of preservation activity is we can all see the 'dream', in whatever level of rivet counting that we are ocmfortable with. But it looks like this one is a lost cause for us.

Bob Kutella

the price is down to $15000 now apparently.
quite a markdown from 75k.

I've been looking for a pic of this car in it's original state but no luck so far.

Just a bit more to add to Don Grant's history of the "Clemenceau."
12Sec Dr
Built Feb.-May 1921
Plan 2410F
Lot 4612

Reference: Ralph L. Barger, A Century of Pullman Cars, vol. 1, Alphabetical List (Sykesville, MD: Greenberg Publishing, 1988), 148.

With that info, someone with enough time and MONEY might be able to make a reasonable restoration of the carbody. The lot and plan number are very important - they can be used to find the actual plans in detail and interior arrangement from the Pullman Library at the Illinois Railway Museum. In many cases typed spec packages are also saved for many of these cars and that would detail everything from heating plant to furniture, to underbody appliances, trucks, braking systems, etc.

But as I said, probably the project of a lifetime, and I suspect there are other Pullman cars that are 'rough' but would represent a better or more feasible starting point.

Bob Kutella

This car is ideal for projects that are looking for a railroad car for character. Indeed, it sounds like the original project was of this ilk.

I hope it goes to such a project, and saves a car that otherwise might be preserved. Likewise, if the owner was more precise in targeting his marketing I do not think he would have trouble attracting both a buyer and a much higher price.

Tom Cornillie