It doesn't appear that anyone who has actually utilized this licensing agreement has responded to this thread. The subject of 30% for royalties has been mentioned several times. My question would be when the 30% of royalties would actually kick in. If I were negotiating this for a group, I would attempt to get the royalty figure to kick in after a certain amount of sales take effect. Since everyone agrees that these types of trips are "shoe-in's", I see no harm in the licensing agency agreeing to this. It would make it a little more palatable for both sides. Just a thought!

I would be very interested to know which lines have contracted to pay the fees to us the term - Polar Express. We really need to know just what is offered for the fees paid. I can tell you that the NH&I sold off all of their Polar Express items in their gift shop this past summer. They were not willing to pay the fees involved. Their Christmas trains already do very well because of their in-house marketing. They have run into problems because of the trains being sold out and they have to turn away disappointed (and sometimes angry) parents. It can be a stressful time for railroad employees, but the trains make money. The railroad is trying to encourage weekday business with tiered pricing for the holiday trains.

You raise a good point Ron. To date none of the relatively few who have stuck with the Polar Express name (and thus one would assume have signed the licenseing agreement??) have been willing to share on here their thoughts.
If you take a trip via the internet to the sites of the "heavy haulers"-those who carry significant passenger loads during the holidays (i.e. Strasburg, NH&I,VRR,SRI,etc.) you'll see that they've all gone "generic" rather than pay the stiff licenseing fee. Again, the interesting question is why the few who haven't-haven't???
Ross Rowland

Have ordered our coach here at the Port Huron Museum from you guys, and WE are just about sold out.

TJ

One thing I don't think I have seen in this thread is how many organizations started out using the Polar Express name before the royalties began thus tapping into the name for free to start their operation. Obviously these organizations used the name to get a head start that anyone entering the market today can not use without paying royalties. It may be some of these early organizations who signed long term contracts or feel they need the name recognition to continue drawing large crowds. Some of the upstarts may feel the same way. Regardless it would interesting to hear from some of those who started using the Polar Express name and now have gone generic.

John Bohon

Greetings:
There is a good reason why more operators are not responding to this thread: anyone who wants to deal with Rail Events must sign a "non-disclosure agreement".
J.David

J.David raises an interesting point. The complete absence on here of any operators who are still using the "Polar Express" name may well be explained by the restrictions of their licenseing agreement? Never having seen the agreement I have no idea what its provisions are.
If you take an internet trip around the industry you'll find that only a few operators are still using the "Polar Express" name and all the big haulers have gone generic. Also in my part of the world I have not yet seen any follow up promotionals on the part of Warner Bros. pushing the DVD of the movie. Unless that happens I'm afraid the movie will soon be forgotten as people have very short memories.
I'm told by several of the bigger operators that their sales in the generic mode are very strong.
Ross Rowland

Here's another curve ball for all of the Christmas Holiday Season train operators.

Do you know that the Northwest Railway Museum claims Santa Train is a registered trademark for their operation? How you can register such a generic term is a mystery to me, but you can see it for yourself here:

http://www.trainmuseum.org/SantaTrainFA ... ta%20Train®?

Oddly enough, a bried online search verified that Santa Train is a registered trademark, but it's not registered by NWRM.

It appears that it was registered by the folks who run the famed Clinchfield Santa Train.

NWRM may be using it with permission, I'm not aware of the details.

http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f= ... t6ko2t.3.2

Good morning!

The following site provides a good list of organizations using the "Polar Express" brand name:

http://www.classbrain.com/artmovies/publish/polar_express_train_rides.shtml

Have a joyous day!
Gary Drag

Thanks for the heads up Gary. If you look down her listing you'll notice that a good number of the roads (all the heavy haulers) are running a "generic" product "inspired (her words) by the "Polar Express" not using that name in their promos. It obviously doesn't require much of a stretch for the consumer to see the connection between the "North Pole Express" and the other one. And for the very few consumers who don't "get-it" it certainly is not worth 30% of the gross sales!
Ross Rowland

Did some searching and stumbled across this site...

WWW.polarexpressride.com

I wonder if calling your train "Polar Express" leads kids to expect more of the ride than they actually get. Any kid who's watched the movie knows that it's a lot more roller coaster than train ride. When the excursion rolls along at 15, without climbing spiral mountains, dashing down ski jump like hills and sliding sideways over frozen lakes, do any kids feel dissapointed?

Yes, this is a serious question... Don't look at it from a railway preservation view, with the knowledge you can't make a steam train ride into a roller coaster, look at it from a kid's view. They know that when you go to Disney and MGM you can ride Jurrasic Park and Spiderman and Batman and Pirates of the Carribean, and... all roller coasters or similiar type rides. Do they expect the same here?

So, does this one come up short by comparision? At least with another name, you wouldn't have quite the same expectations.

Good question Bob. I can report that on the NH&I the vast majority of the guests are between2-9 yrs. old with one or two adults in tow. It's my impression that being able to get up close to the steam engine and then having Santa himself visit with them during the ride is plenty good enough especially for the under 5 or 6 crowd.
As the trains run as solid sell-outs (much of it as a result of word of mouth) I can only presume that the feedback from the kids must be very positive.
You're probably right with the older kids, especially those who are riding one of the lines still calling it the "Polar Express" that there's no doubt some let down?? Another good reason not to pay the royalty!
Ross Rowland