Ummm, no big debate intended here, but precisely how is any scrap dealer supposed to tell a "stolen" item from a legitimate piece of scrap? Take this to its logical extremes:

"You say you replaced your car door? How do I know you didn't just steal a door off a car on the street and dent it so you could bring it in here to sell me?"

"You say you replaced these supposedly defective railroad truck leaf springs? How do I know you didn't steal them from the back lot of the railroad museum?"

You want me to scrap this old railroad Pullman car and locomotive? Well, tell me, do you have proof of ownership? Is there a title with the MVA or what? Oh, you painted initials on the side. Big deal, I could do that to your truck, does that make it mine? Go away until you have a clear title...."

"You say these old streetcar girder rails are too brittle for you to reuse? Well, they look like they were dragged out of the city streets! Oh, they were? By the city public works department thirty-five years ago, you say...... can you prove it? What, the mayor who authorized it is now dead? Well, tough potatoes......."

Alex:

So some guy comes walking into a scrap yard with miscellaneous pieces of this and that. Do you think that a junk man would then be convinced that the guy's legit? Even if the guy doesn't have the tell-tale signs of being on meth, the junkers are not fools. They've been in the business too long most of them.

I think there's a difference between coming in with a junk car or even car pieces versus coming in with a full reel of hard-drawn grooved copper trolley wire,or a door off something that doesn't look even close to an automobile. This very thing happened to the Ft. Smith heritage line. The thieves even used Ft. Smith's own fork lift to load the reel onto their truck/trailer!

In our case we were told by the local PD that our railbonds were probably out of state within a few hours and were headed for an unscrpulous junk man in another state. The local scrappers were alerted to the theft of our railbonds within hours of our reporting the theft to police. The Twin City metro PDs and Sherrif's Departments have a kind of mass fax telephone list and the scrappers get alerted when a significant theft has occured so they can be on the lookout.

Oh, and a previous response to the thread stated something to the effect that they weren't prepared to preess charges on a theft of a few items. In our state, the victim doesn't press charges. When the police find out about a crime, whether it be assault or theft, the PD takes it from there and the victim doesn't get involved at all unless there's a claim of restitution (in the case of a theft) if the stolen goods don't get returned. In other words if the theft is reported to the PD then it's up to the city or county attorney to decide to prosecute the case. In virtually all cases they prosecute.

Thanks!

We have experianced theft of materials numerous times here in Kansas at the museum in Wichita. The last time was the theft of joint bars and bolts. We reported the theft to the police and also to both the BNSF & UP Special Agents. We were told to not get our hopes up and it would be doubtful if we saw the parts again or the theives caught. I had been talking to the detective that was working the case and he let slip who he thought might have taken the material. I took the info and went to the various scrap dealers in town and found that this guy had been selling them railroad iron for several months and one of them had an address for the guy. Drove by his place and what do you know there were our bars and bolts along with several piles of other RR related iron. He was outside and sorting it as i watched from about a block away. Long story short here he was arrested and prosecuted for felony theft for what he stole from us as well as both railroads. He is also facing federal charges due to both the UP and BNSF getting involved. You have to be involved with what happens to your museum or operation. If you sit on your hands and wait for the cops to do it you will have flat hands. We have a zero tolerance policy when it comes to someone breaking the law on our property. If you crawl under the fence and are caught on the grounds you get to go to jail and face the local judge. Our problems with that have diminished greatly becasue we dont back off.

This topic was previously covered extensively in May of this year. The end results appear to be the same, however at that time the focus of apathy in these matters seemed to fall on law enforcement which obviously, by some of these posts, varies significantly from state to state. In any event, the situation seems to not have changed at all. It would seem that the best way to combat this is to make sure your equipment is secure, and that itself is not an easy task. On many occasions items are transported from one place to the next and left unattanded in railyards and other areas that leaves them open to attack. On occasion we've even resorted to actually sleeping in our equipment whenever possible while it's in transit.

In the North Jersey/New York metropolitan area I can state from first hand experience that 75% of the scrap dealers are unscrupulous and would purchase anything with no questions asked. And I'm not talking about innocuous items. The other 25% are the major dealers, larger companies that wouldn't bother with anything nebulous. The 75% are made of of smaller operators, most of these in the inner cities who would by literally anything. Brass name plates from cemetary graves, brass and bronze plaques from buildings and public entities, Aluminum light stanchions and bridge railings prominently marked "State Dept. of Transportation", bronze veteran name-plates, copper gutters from Railroad stations, the list is endless.

This is a major problem, and once again, with the escalating price of scrap, is becoming more of a threat to us, and it seems that there isn't a real solution to fit all of our situations.

I was waiting for that.

Another example of where this is leading...

Over the course of this holiday period, thieves twice stole copper from manholes in the Dallas/Fort Worth area, in the process cutting high speed fiber lines that supply large chunks of high speed Internet connectivity for the DWF area. Services where I work were interrupted (including some life and property saving data feeds), staff worked over time, interrupted holiday plans, and senior management kept asking if it was really copper theives!

I feel for the large telcos... they replace hardware only have it broken into an stolen again a few days/weeks/hours later, the thieves knowing exactly what they are going to get the next time around.

When I was an intern at at a local prosecutor's office, I saw several cases involving several hundered counts of theft of scrap metal. Jim is right about the unscrupulous scrap dealers that will take anything, including the kitchen sink. I believe Metrolink had some copper theft problems when they were strining the wire on the new extension. After that, I believe they turned on the juice once they finished each section. Doing that usually cuts down on theft.

Getting involved is key. When I was at the Kentucky Railway Museum, we had two locals try to strip out a large amount of copper pipe and wire from an ex-Milwaukee Road car and sell it. By working with police, contacting local scrap dealers, the culprits were caught and ended up spending a lot of time in jail. If the culprits are ever caught, showing up at court, especially during any bond hearings or sentencing is key. Letting the judge know what was stolen, how your organization is a non-profit volunteer organization, and the hard work that was ruined by the theft of the metals goes a long way to ensure punishment. From my expierence, your local prosecutor's office should me more than willing to keep you informed and let you know about court dates. Showing up makes a huge difference.

I had an evil, awful idea today whole waiting for two fast-flying PRR E8s..........

Someone could just swipe a door from 4876 to replace the 4877's missing door........ only one digit away, and it's not like 4876 has any chance in hell where it is now..........

This happened some years back. The city here owns about 3 miles of railroad track, actually part of the 4th oldest railroad in California. It is held in reserve for future industrial use. We (a small group of motorcar owners) had a deal with the city to keep the tracks clear in exchange for the ability to run on them. part of the tracks ran behind a cemetary through some nice cuts and short fills (really was a nice scenic ride!). We finished using the tracks for the winter, and in early April, a neighbor called me to tell me the tracks were missing behind the cemetary! At first there was a "juristiction issue" until I told the city staff what was happening--then the city police became involved. Turned out a group of thieves were stealing the ties! I even saw them selling them, but didn't realize where they came from! After I presonally did all the legwork, and figured out who they were, they were prosecuted, and dealed for time served & restitiution (right, where wil they come up with the money?). Well, when they were let loose, they were found stealing copper to pay the restitiution. To add irony, the local UP crews loaned them track tools! The track has never been replaced, BTW.
I will admit, the work spent getting the track into shape (before the theft) really made me appreciate those gandy dancers. That there is HARD work!
Steamcerely,
David Dewey